Philosophy Now Forum

Constantine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 11:23 am I looked through everything. I can't get a closeup of the wall, someone drone shot it, so know the rough layout of the church. In a photo I'm not even sure belongs to the church I see a modern brick wall, and it has a grave with tilted slate slabs over it that are falling in. It's by the wall. About three slabs if memory recalls.

It might be it. The sarcophagus is in the corner of the churchyard, by the wall, on the same side of the churchyard that the standing stone is in, though that's closer to the church. The sarcophagus itself is pretty much smashed to pieces. The nearby wall, from memory, is about half a metre high, and covered in moss, so is pretty old, and I assumed medieval. On the other side of the wall is a sheer drop, maybe between two and three metres to the ground.

There are some actual liminal places that I love. One of those is the moment before I step into a small boat so small I can feel it move to displace water beneath me.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:05 pm There are some actual liminal places that I love. One of those is the moment before I step into a small boat so small I can feel it move to displace water beneath me.

Maia wrote

In so many ways we seem to care more about boundaries than the actual things they enclose.

From my own feelings this is undoubtedly true . I attribute it to our need to be poised ready to act for defence or from our need for some other sort of adventure. We'd be moribund if we did not feel this need.

I think they chose the location as it would be more picturesque more than anything.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:15 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:05 pm There are some actual liminal places that I love. One of those is the moment before I step into a small boat so small I can feel it move to displace water beneath me.

Maia wrote

In so many ways we seem to care more about boundaries than the actual things they enclose.

From my own feelings this is undoubtedly true . I attribute it to our need to be poised ready to act for defence or from our need for some other sort of adventure. We'd be moribund if we did not feel this need.

Yes, it could well be. Humans thrive on challenges and change.

Constantine wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:17 pm I think they chose the location as it would be more picturesque more than anything.

Could well be the reason.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:15 pmSo who owns the remaining tenth of your stomach?

The free-loading parasitical bacteria lining my intestines

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:13 pm

Age wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:37 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 11:30 am

That human beings are territorial by nature, just like many other animals are.

So what are you NATURALLY 'territorially 'attracted to', EXACTLY? If I can ASK you 'this' in 'this way'.

I used to own a house with a garden, which was enclosed partly by a fence, and partly by a hawthorn hedge, which were there to show that that piece of land belonged to somebody, and to stop people just wandering onto it. I didn't like the thought of people just wandering into my garden, although I used to turn a blind eye to the postman.

Here we have ANOTHER PRIME example of just how NARROWED and SMALL 'field of view' these people REALLY DID HAVE, back in the days when this is being written.

I suggest that if 'we' are going to talk ABOUT 'things' like 'human nature', for example, then 'we' LOOK AT, and FROM, a MUCH LARGER and BIGGER SCALE OF 'things' than FROM just how OWN VERY TINY and LITTLE lives and experiences ONLY.

YES I AGREE that ONE human being name with the LABEL "harbal" probably actually DID 'buy' a parcel of land, with 'money', which had squarish building on it and some sort of particularly chosen by 'you' garden, enclosed by some sort of 'separating' fence. HOWEVER, BEFORE 'you' ACTUAL OTHER 'things' HAPPENED and OCCURRED. Of which one of them was human beings FREELY ROAMED around the earth with NO ILLUSION of 'separation' and 'territories'.

As I was SAYING. It is NOT 'innate' NOR 'human nature' to be 'territorial'. HOWEVER, it is BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS that adult human beings HAVE COME TO BE VERY GREEDY and SELFISH and DO 'try to' DECLARE that 'some part', of earth, IS MINE.

And, those who are MORE SELFISH and MORE GREEDY, that is; those ones who SEEK OUT and WANT MORE MONEY, are usually the ones who like to 'TRY TO' declare, 'I have MORE than you', and they DO 'this' by ENFORCING some sort of 'separation', 'restriction', and/or 'prohibition' on said 'parcels of earth'.

But, AGAIN, 'this' IS ALL LEARNED behavior, and NOT NATURAL behavior.

There IS a NATURAL Intelligence DEEP WITHIN, or DEEP BEHIND, which KNOWS that NO human being ACTUALLY 'owns' ANY 'parcel of land/earth', as EACH and EVERY 'human being' ONLY lives WITH, or in later years, USES 'that land', which 'one' walks upon and over. NO one, REALLY, 'stays around long enough' to ACTUALLY 'own' NOR REALLY 'possess' absolutely ANY 'thing'.

SURE, parents may well HAVE children, which those parents NEED TO 'protect', 'guide', and 'nurture', but even then 'those children' are NEVER ACTUALLY 'owned' NOR 'possessed' by those 'parents'. Although MANY 'parents' like to, and some even love to, IMAGINE that 'they' DO 'own' the Wrongly named 'their children', but the Truth IS 'they' NEVER REALLY DO.

And 'this' goes with ALL 'things'. NO 'thing' is EVER ACTUALLY 'owned' by 'you', human beings. ALL 'things' are just 'lived WITH'. Which, by the way, there IS a MUCH BETTER WAY 'of living' WHEN 'things' are being CARED FOR and NURTURED, NATURALLY, INSTEAD of being IMAGINED that 'they' are 'OWNED' and 'POSSESSED', by 'you', human beings.

Now, in saying the above, there IS ACTUALLY One 'Thing', which could be classed as being 'OWNED' and/or 'POSSESSED'. However, 'you', adult human beings, in the current to the days when this is being written stage of evolution, are STILL some way OFF having 'this' being REVEALED TO 'you'.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:13 pm

What do 'you' CLASS as 'YOUR territory'?

My house, when I owned one, and now the flat I live in, even though I don't actually own it. I think of my country as being the territory of a particular group of people, of which I am a member.

AND it is this EXACT form and type of 'SEPARATISM', which CAUSES and CREATES A GREAT DEAL of the CONFLICT and TURMOIL that 'you', human beings, collectively have found "yourselves" IN, in the days when this is being written.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:13 pm

And, IF 'human beings' are 'territorial', by nature, then 'the nature of human beings' IS 'being territorial', right?

Certain aspects of human behaviour do strongly suggest we are territorial by nature.

YES I ABSOLUTELY and TOTALLY AGREE that certain aspects of 'human behavior' do, very strongly, SUGGEST that 'you' are some 'thing', by 'nature'.

BUT, what SUGGESTS, (appears, or seems), is NOT necessarily the case AT ALL. Even NO matter HOW STRONGLY some 'thing' SEEMS, APPEARS, nor SUGGESTS, absolutely EVERY 'thing' that is A 'suggestion', 'appearance', 'seeming', 'assumption', 'theory', 'guess', or ANY of the other synonyms DOES NOT, and I will repeat DOES NOT, mean that 'it' is ACTUALLY True, Right, NOR Correct.

ONLY 'that', which is IRREFUTABLE, is ACTUALLY what IS ACTUALLY True, Right, and/or Correct.

AND, to UNCOVER, FIND, or DISCOVER what IS ACTUALLY, and IRREFUTABLY, True, Right, and/or Correct I KNOW OF by One way ONLY.

Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:13 pm I don't see any reason to question my impression that human beings are territorial, but were I presented with the results of some study or other on the matter that proved otherwise, I suppose I would rethink.

AGAIN, 'these older people', BACK THEN, REALLY DID ONLY look AT and SEE 'things' FROM a VERY SMALL and TINY 'perspective' of 'things', and which was based SOLELY ON their OWN VERY SMALL and TINY 'experiences' IN and OF Life, Itself.

They were SO BLINDED, and DEAFENED, by their OWN very small and very narrowed 'past experiences' that they, literally, could NOT SEE, and HEAR, the ACTUAL Truth, which IS GLARING OBVIOUS right IN FRONT OF 'them' and which IS STARING DIRECTLY BACK AT 'them', as some might say.

BUT this WAS, for 'them', the UNFORTUNATE consequences of being in an evolving form, which 'possesses' Intelligence, and thus the ABILITY to LEARN, UNDERSTAND, and REASON absolutely ANY and EVERY 'thing', but with the VERY LIMITED capabilities of a brain, which is only able to work just like a computer, that is; output = input.

In other words, if 'one' has only been brought up IN 'a world' of GREED, SELFISHNESS, and SEPARATED TERRITORIES, then that one will ONLY KNOW OF 'those things'. Conversely, if one is brought up IN 'a world' of PURE BLISS and Harmony, then that is what 'that one' WILL LEARN and KNOW HOW-TO Create, AS WELL.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:05 pm I already answered that question.

It is "your" stomach and not "another's" stomach.

"Possession is nine-tenths of the Law" as the saying goes.

ONCE AGAIN, ANOTHER PRIME example of CHOOSING to ONLY look AT, ANSWER, and DISCUSS SOME 'things', and NOT ALL of what I CLEARLY SAID, and WROTE.

This kind of VERY LIMITED, SHALLOW, and NARROWED WAY of LOOKING and SEEING 'things' IS WHY 'these people', back then, took SO LONG to COME-TO-SEE the ACTUAL Truth OF 'things'.

Maia wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:50 pm In so many ways we seem to care more about boundaries than the actual things they enclose.

A GREAT example of 'this' is 'you', older people, DO seem VERY MUCH to care MORE ABOUT 'you', and 'the body', that is; 'the boundary', than the ACTUAL 'Thing', WITHIN.

'you', people, are, literally, MORE CONCERNED ABOUT 'physical feelings' and/or 'being hurt/internal feelings', than 'you' are ABOUT the ACTUAL Truly IMPORTANT 'Thing' and 'One' IN Life.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:15 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:05 pm There are some actual liminal places that I love. One of those is the moment before I step into a small boat so small I can feel it move to displace water beneath me.

Maia wrote

In so many ways we seem to care more about boundaries than the actual things they enclose.

From my own feelings this is undoubtedly true . I attribute it to our need to be poised ready to act for defence or from our need for some other sort of adventure.

LOL What 'need' do 'you' ENVISION there IS or COULD BE to 'defend' for A 'human body'?

SURE, there IS a 'want' to keep living, but what 'need' could there be?

LOL It is like 'these people' REALLY BELIEVED that Life, or the Universe, could NOT keep going on WITHOUT 'them'.

ONCE 'they' come to LEARN, KNOW, and UNDERSTAND what the ACTUAL Truth IS, then 'they' too WILL SEE just how FUNNY, STUPID, and HUMOROUS 'we' ALL REALLY WERE, back then, in those 'OLDEN DAYS'.

SEE, thee ONLY One of ANY REALLY IMPORTANCE, which would 'need' PROTECTING lives ALWAYS anyway. So, the 'need' to 'defend or protect' is a Truly 'unnecessary' FEELING. Which, by the way, gets TRANSFERRED to the 'human being' level or perspective of 'things', which is ALSO Truly UNNECESSARY as ALL 'human bodies' are NOT around for ANY great length of time, anyway neither.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:15 pm We'd be moribund if we did not feel this need.

This is ANOTHER PRIME example of just HOW and WHEN these human beings, back then, would REPLACE a 'want' for an IMAGINED 'need'.

Maia wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 4:22 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:15 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 2:05 pm There are some actual liminal places that I love. One of those is the moment before I step into a small boat so small I can feel it move to displace water beneath me.

Maia wrote

In so many ways we seem to care more about boundaries than the actual things they enclose.

From my own feelings this is undoubtedly true . I attribute it to our need to be poised ready to act for defence or from our need for some other sort of adventure. We'd be moribund if we did not feel this need.

Yes, it could well be. Humans thrive on challenges and change.

YES 'they' DO.

VERY UNFORTUNATELY though the 'older ones' of the species 'human' are the MOST NON CHALLENGING and NON WANTING of CHANGE ones.

ALL new born human beings come out READY FOR, and WANTING, CHALLENGES and CHANGE. But, as can be CLEARLY SEEN here, in this forum for example, only on the VERY, VERY RAREST of occasions do they SEEK OUT and ACCEPT CHALLENGES, and as for WANTING TO CHANGE, then this can be CLEARLY SEEN as a NO SHOW.

Just about EVERY one comes here, in this forum, to just EXPRESS their OWN BELIEF or ASSUMPTION, and then just KEEP FIGHTING or ARGUING, over and over again and again, for that BELIEF or ASSUMPTION, ONLY.

There is just about absolutely NO CHANGE, and just about absolutely NO ACCEPTANCE for CHALLENGERS, nor even REAL ATTEMPT TO CHALLENGE "others". There is just the view, "this is MY side", and I will FIGHT till the death over 'this view'.

Which, by the way, would be TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE IF, and ONLY IF, 'that view' was absolutely and irrefutably True, Right, Accurate, and/or Correct. But if 'a view' is NOT, then I suggest EXPECTING to be CHALLENGED, well at least by me anyway. And, if 'a view' one is HOLDING is NOT YET in AGREEMENT and ACCEPTANCE WITH EVERY one, then I suggest ALSO EXPECTING 'that view' ACTUALLY NEEDS CHANGING.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:07 am

Maia wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:50 pm In so many ways we seem to care more about boundaries than the actual things they enclose.

A GREAT example of 'this' is 'you', older people, DO seem VERY MUCH to care MORE ABOUT 'you', and 'the body', that is; 'the boundary', than the ACTUAL 'Thing', WITHIN.

'you', people, are, literally, MORE CONCERNED ABOUT 'physical feelings' and/or 'being hurt/internal feelings', than 'you' are ABOUT the ACTUAL Truly IMPORTANT 'Thing' and 'One' IN Life.

A little less of the "older", thanks.

Maia wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:11 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:07 am

Maia wrote: ↑Thu Jul 13, 2023 1:50 pm In so many ways we seem to care more about boundaries than the actual things they enclose.

A GREAT example of 'this' is 'you', older people, DO seem VERY MUCH to care MORE ABOUT 'you', and 'the body', that is; 'the boundary', than the ACTUAL 'Thing', WITHIN.

'you', people, are, literally, MORE CONCERNED ABOUT 'physical feelings' and/or 'being hurt/internal feelings', than 'you' are ABOUT the ACTUAL Truly IMPORTANT 'Thing' and 'One' IN Life.

A little less of the "older", thanks.

That word was NEVER in reference to 'you', "maia", but was in reference to ALL of 'you', older human beings, instead. Or, in more general terms, the 'human adult'.

By the way, and in what ever way you are able to read, see, or hear my words, are you at all able to detect when my words are written in capital letters or not?

Age wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:21 am

Maia wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:11 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:07 am

A GREAT example of 'this' is 'you', older people, DO seem VERY MUCH to care MORE ABOUT 'you', and 'the body', that is; 'the boundary', than the ACTUAL 'Thing', WITHIN.

'you', people, are, literally, MORE CONCERNED ABOUT 'physical feelings' and/or 'being hurt/internal feelings', than 'you' are ABOUT the ACTUAL Truly IMPORTANT 'Thing' and 'One' IN Life.

A little less of the "older", thanks.

That word was NEVER in reference to 'you', "maia", but was in reference to ALL of 'you', older human beings, instead. Or, in more general terms, the 'human adult'.

By the way, and in what ever way you are able to read, see, or hear my words, are you at all able to detect when my words are written in capital letters or not?

I use a screenreader, which converts written text to synthesised speech. The default setting does not distinguish capitals, but I can switch to character reading, which indicates capitals with a change in pitch. There are other options too, such as it saying "all cap" for a string of capitals.