Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

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iambiguous
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by iambiguous »

Maia wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 6:15 am
iambiguous wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:32 am
Maia wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:05 am

I think you tend to get out of life what you put into it, and that includes one's attitude to things. It's really not all that difficult to be happy.
Not much there, alas, but, sure, that might make perfect sense to some and no sense at all to others.
Like attracts like. If you put nice things out there, nice things will come back. If, on the other hand, you take a cynical attitude to everything, then that's what you'll get.

Sure, as a "general observation", fine. But for each of us as individuals, it either makes sense to be cynical or it doesn't. And what can we possibly grasp about the lives of those that are very, very different from our own? Then the part I note above linking capitalism and cynicism. Then the part where I intertwine it existentially in dasein. And then, finally, back to the part where you yourself are "somehow" in possession of a deep down inside you spiritual, intuitive, intrinsic Self that steers you in a more credulous and hopeful direction.

Also, so much of how we construe the world around us is rooted in our own individual circumstances. Yours here and now take you away from cynicism. But who is to say if down the road for any number of reasons your circumstances begin to crumble. You might actually end up clinging to cynicism just to be optimistic.

Bottom line [mine]:

There is what you think and feel here and now given the life you've lived and there's what you might think and feel instead later given variables in your life that may well be beyond -- way beyond -- either your full understanding of or control over.
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Maia
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by Maia »

iambiguous wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 6:13 pm
Maia wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 6:15 am
iambiguous wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:32 am

Not much there, alas, but, sure, that might make perfect sense to some and no sense at all to others.
Like attracts like. If you put nice things out there, nice things will come back. If, on the other hand, you take a cynical attitude to everything, then that's what you'll get.

Sure, as a "general observation", fine. But for each of us as individuals, it either makes sense to be cynical or it doesn't. And what can we possibly grasp about the lives of those that are very, very different from our own? Then the part I note above linking capitalism and cynicism. Then the part where I intertwine it existentially in dasein. And then, finally, back to the part where you yourself are "somehow" in possession of a deep down inside you spiritual, intuitive, intrinsic Self that steers you in a more credulous and hopeful direction.

Also, so much of how we construe the world around us is rooted in our own individual circumstances. Yours here and now take you away from cynicism. But who is to say if down the road for any number of reasons your circumstances begin to crumble. You might actually end up clinging to cynicism just to be optimistic.

Bottom line [mine]:

There is what you think and feel here and now given the life you've lived and there's what you might think and feel instead later given variables in your life that may well be beyond -- way beyond -- either your full understanding of or control over.
While it can be fascinating finding out about other people's lives, we can never know them fully, because that's just in the nature of things. We're not them, in other words. I don't know why this should be a source of anxiety, though. The same is true with regard to speculation about what our lives might have been like under different circumstances.
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Sculptor
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by Sculptor »

Maia wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 5:17 pm
Sculptor wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 3:33 pm
Maia wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 1:21 pm I imagine that none of these hardened cynics even realise that they're following a cultural fashion, each trying to outdo everyone else in sneering at everything around them. Does it really make them feel any happier or fulfilled? I think we can safely say that the answer is no. It could be said, and I'm sure many do, that the times we're living in demand such an attitude, but anyone familiar with history knows that the times we're living in have always been full of corruption and stupidity.

I'm aware, of course, that Cynicism is also a branch of Classical philosophy, which bears almost no relation to the modern use of the term.
Cynicism is not the problem. At least there is a degree of useful skepticism in cynicism.
The biggest change in society seems to be the normalisation of a sort of sneering hatred, and bigotry which is continually validated by the right-wing, especially Christians who think they have a right to impose their twisted morality onto others.
This is enriched by a knee jerk rejection of science and learning and a disrespect for diversity.
I think that sort of sneering hatred can be found on both sides of the political spectrum, and is one reason why I don't like politics.
Everything is politics.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by Dontaskme »

The “law of attraction” is not a law. It is nothing more than whimsical wispy wishywashy fanciful mushy thinking, packaged up by scam artists and sold to gullible people prone to magical thinking.

Like attracts like is a fallacy sold to you by spiritual people who live with their head in the clouds and who have lost touch with reality as it actually presents itself raw and unfiltered.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by Dontaskme »

People are their most happiest and tend to get along better in relationships when both people just accept each others idiosyncrasies and stop trying to change who they are, or change their partner. And simply accept and allow each other to be their own unique never to be repeated selves without question. If a partner stays with you regardless of your faults then they are yours to be cherished. If they leave you they were never yours to begin with. Sometimes partners just simply know they were meant to be together and cannot imagine their lives without each other. No matter how different they are or how opposite they are in character.

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Iwannaplato
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:51 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:36 pm shared a whole lot of noisy noise that I have no comprehension of understanding because it's just heard as blah blah blah.
I didn't write that. Maybe you are mocking me and that's what I'm supposed to have been like. I don't know.
I am not resonating with you right now ok. I haven't the remotest understanding of what you are saying to me when you respond to my posts. . .goodbye.
OK
Treat me gentle and with a slow, patient, quiet mannerism,
You insulted me. You reacted with a lot of anger.
Hey, I'd like to be treated gentle and slow.

Shit on me, then ask me to treat you nice. Wow.

I'll leave you alone.

Keep telling us all what to do. I won't respond or read your posts.
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iambiguous
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by iambiguous »

Maia wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 6:23 pm
iambiguous wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 6:13 pm
Maia wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 6:15 am

Like attracts like. If you put nice things out there, nice things will come back. If, on the other hand, you take a cynical attitude to everything, then that's what you'll get.

Sure, as a "general observation", fine. But for each of us as individuals, it either makes sense to be cynical or it doesn't. And what can we possibly grasp about the lives of those that are very, very different from our own? Then the part I note above linking capitalism and cynicism. Then the part where I intertwine it existentially in dasein. And then, finally, back to the part where you yourself are "somehow" in possession of a deep down inside you spiritual, intuitive, intrinsic Self that steers you in a more credulous and hopeful direction.

Also, so much of how we construe the world around us is rooted in our own individual circumstances. Yours here and now take you away from cynicism. But who is to say if down the road for any number of reasons your circumstances begin to crumble. You might actually end up clinging to cynicism just to be optimistic.

Bottom line [mine]:

There is what you think and feel here and now given the life you've lived and there's what you might think and feel instead later given variables in your life that may well be beyond -- way beyond -- either your full understanding of or control over.
While it can be fascinating finding out about other people's lives, we can never know them fully, because that's just in the nature of things. We're not them, in other words. I don't know why this should be a source of anxiety, though. The same is true with regard to speculation about what our lives might have been like under different circumstances.
That might be true. As a general observation. And this includes my own general observations as well. We just understand all of this from very different frames of mind. Your intuitive, spiritual Self as construed by my own rooted existentially in dasein fractured and fragmented "self" is a mystery. I do not possess anything like it. The closest I came to it "way back when" was as an objectivist...first in a God world, then in a No God world.

Now it just seems reasonable to think that in the absence of God -- or the secular equivalent of Him -- human existence is essentially meaningless and purposeless. And one by one we tumble over into the abyss that is oblivion. And yet from the cradle to the grave we can engage in any number of options that bring us fulfillment and satisfaction.

But...

But our individual lives here can be entirely different...making "failure to communicate" a very common thing. Being or not being cynical is exactly the sort of subject that precipitates the most disagreement. I'm cynical because, given how I understand the world around me it, seems reasonable to be. Both philosophically and otherwise.

You're not. Here and now, that seems reasonable to you. Then all the points we note above.
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Maia
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by Maia »

iambiguous wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:36 pm
Maia wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 6:23 pm
iambiguous wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 6:13 pm


Sure, as a "general observation", fine. But for each of us as individuals, it either makes sense to be cynical or it doesn't. And what can we possibly grasp about the lives of those that are very, very different from our own? Then the part I note above linking capitalism and cynicism. Then the part where I intertwine it existentially in dasein. And then, finally, back to the part where you yourself are "somehow" in possession of a deep down inside you spiritual, intuitive, intrinsic Self that steers you in a more credulous and hopeful direction.

Also, so much of how we construe the world around us is rooted in our own individual circumstances. Yours here and now take you away from cynicism. But who is to say if down the road for any number of reasons your circumstances begin to crumble. You might actually end up clinging to cynicism just to be optimistic.

Bottom line [mine]:

There is what you think and feel here and now given the life you've lived and there's what you might think and feel instead later given variables in your life that may well be beyond -- way beyond -- either your full understanding of or control over.
While it can be fascinating finding out about other people's lives, we can never know them fully, because that's just in the nature of things. We're not them, in other words. I don't know why this should be a source of anxiety, though. The same is true with regard to speculation about what our lives might have been like under different circumstances.
That might be true. As a general observation. And this includes my own general observations as well. We just understand all of this from very different frames of mind. Your intuitive, spiritual Self as construed by my own rooted existentially in dasein fractured and fragmented "self" is a mystery. I do not possess anything like it. The closest I came to it "way back when" was as an objectivist...first in a God world, then in a No God world.

Now it just seems reasonable to think that in the absence of God -- or the secular equivalent of Him -- human existence is essentially meaningless and purposeless. And one by one we tumble over into the abyss that is oblivion. And yet from the cradle to the grave we can engage in any number of options that bring us fulfillment and satisfaction.

But...

But our individual lives here can be entirely different...making "failure to communicate" a very common thing. Being or not being cynical is exactly the sort of subject that precipitates the most disagreement. I'm cynical because, given how I understand the world around me it, seems reasonable to be. Both philosophically and otherwise.

You're not. Here and now, that seems reasonable to you. Then all the points we note above.
Yes, I agree.

We should all choose the path that seems best for us. I rather like having a positive outlook on life.
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 3:33 pm diversity.
Has anyone else noticed how it's only ever white wokie wankers (wonkers) who use the word 'diversity' in this way? There are a HELL of a lot of humans on the planet, therefore humanity is going to be 'diverse' no matter what-- without the 'help' of these god-like creatures who preside over the rest of us. Are Chinese and Indians saying, 'Oooh, we must have more 'diversity' in our film industries and governments. We must have quotas to correct this unfair advantage that we have. We need to be more 'inclusive' '? Of course they aren't. It's only wonkers who are arrogant and racist enough to do that. It's the same with the equally nauseating 'multiculturalism'. When you want to experience another culture you go to the country of that culture. If anything, emigrating means losing one's culture. That's a sacrifice that humans make when they move to another country. They are intelligent enough to understand this. They might even be more than happy to leave it behind, or never had much interest in it in the first place. Wonkies are anti culture-and-diversity. They want humankind to be homogenised milk. Apparently, wonkie 'gods' know better than everyone else and have designated themselves the 'guardians of the collective conscience of humankind'.
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by Dontaskme »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:03 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:51 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:36 pm shared a whole lot of noisy noise that I have no comprehension of understanding because it's just heard as blah blah blah.
I didn't write that. Maybe you are mocking me and that's what I'm supposed to have been like. I don't know.
I am not resonating with you right now ok. I haven't the remotest understanding of what you are saying to me when you respond to my posts. . .goodbye.
OK
Treat me gentle and with a slow, patient, quiet mannerism,
You insulted me. You reacted with a lot of anger.
Hey, I'd like to be treated gentle and slow.

Shit on me, then ask me to treat you nice. Wow.

I'll leave you alone.

Keep telling us all what to do. I won't respond or read your posts.
Listen it's obvious from past history that our interactions are a headache. I'm sick and tired of you always making me out to be an angry person, you've already labeled me a misanthrope.
Well I guess that justifies the nitpicker you are then, and you see this as an insult, boo hoo, I'm tired of all your crap, in fact talking to you makes me feel physically ill to be honest.

I have never told people what to do with their lives like you accuse, I've only ever talked to others about how I live my life.

I am very pleased to hear you won't ever respond to my posts anymore, that's the best news I've heard in a long time , thank the lord.

You big fucking cry baby.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by Dontaskme »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:03 pm
Keep telling us all what to do.
Fuck you...what the heck do you think philosophers are doing here, but sharing with others their own private thoughts about how and what they see the nature of being and reality to be all about...and mostly, they are sharing their opinions with others, on what their private thoughts are informing them as to what they personally believe, should and could be actually going on here in life. That we even want to share these private thoughts with others is perhaps because we are all in this together. . we all share the same one reality, each and every single one of us.

If that's what philosophers are are doing here, which they are, then that means they are informing not only themselves, but also others the many many different ways in which we are all experiencing this same one reality we all share. We as philosophers are putting it out-there, via our own philosophical personal private thoughts as to what the main and most important principles should and could exist in the lives of all of us. Not just me, but each and every other philosopher here is guilty of presenting their most private assumed and made up imagined principles to other people as if such suggestions is how we are supposed to live our lives by according to these beliefs, as we see in religious philosophy. So big deal if all we are doing is presenting the knowledge we have all accumulated and passed around and continue to share with each other, to this day, that same knowledge over over and over again, over many generations.

Does that mean people are telling other people what to do with their lives? NO hell NO

So yes, there does seems to be all these individual little think tanks coming up with their own ego based treasured little theories as to what is the real and true nature of human life and reality, as we know it...according to individual opinions and beliefs.

So stfu, you pathetic, petty, pedantic, annoying little person.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:17 pm Has anyone else noticed how it's only ever white wokie wankers (wonkers) who use the word 'diversity' in this way?
The reason your observations interest me, in the context of the topic of cynicism, is because -- I think it possible to propose -- that one aspect of cynicism is a general loss of confidence. Certainly we have many good reasons to be suspicious and cynical (distrustful) of the myriad Machiavellian interests that surround us, and this is necessary and even required, but what I believe you are pointing to when you critique the use of the term *diversity* (an Orwellian term if ever there was one) has to do with the undermining of a former cultural chauvinism that, once, was a basic value. I selected that word:
chauvinism (ˈʃəʊvɪˌnɪzəm)
n
1. aggressive or fanatical patriotism; jingoism
2. enthusiastic devotion to a cause
3. smug irrational belief in the superiority of one's own race, party, sex, etc: male chauvinism.
[C19: from French chauvinisme, after Nicolas Chauvin, legendary French soldier under Napoleon, noted for his vociferous and unthinking patriotism]
Because it puts the issue in strong relief. There certainly was a time when it was considered natural and normal to strongly value and strongly put forward one's own nation, culture, and indeed one's own people. These attitudes, supported by certain ideas, those we now judge as being bad or regressive, were the normal attitude of our grandparents and great grandparents. Now, what has happened is a unique form of "transvaluation of values". In our nations (certainly if speaking of the English-speaking nations) we have had our sense of self-identification and even self-appreciation undermined. It is a curious malady, a sort of sickness, a loss of a capacity to stand up for oneself, indeed to put oneself first.

What is the origin of these sentiments or loss of nerve? The two European wars. Robertson Jeffers wrote a poem in which he mentioned that Europe after WW2 -- the jewel of the world, he wrote -- lay in ruins and had become a beggar. And with no moral right to lecture anyone given the levels of destruction unleashed. It became necessary to locate a cause, a reason, and someone to blame for all of that. But what was that? No one can quite say. What happened? No one quite knows. The best psychological analysis I ever came across was CG Jung's After the Catastrophe.

However, it is in a deep sense of collective guilt that the European person turned, at a basic level, against his own self. But that is what happens when a guilty conscience meditates on itself. It turns against itself, it invalidates itself. That guilty person must go to work and make amends for what his forefathers allowed.
There are a HELL of a lot of humans on the planet, therefore humanity is going to be 'diverse' no matter what -- without the 'help' of these god-like creatures who preside over the rest of us.
Those god-like are motivated by specific ideas and believe that they have the right to impose and enforce them. They believe it is their moral duty to do so and they say that those who oppose them are immoral. But it is also necessary to say that our own modern Liberalism, in its original form, and I do not mean the excessive variant we talk about as *wokeness*, has also always insisted on its moral superiority. If Liberalism is taken as a political ideal where people with different outlooks live together under a shared political umbrella.
Are Chinese and Indians saying, 'Oooh, we must have more 'diversity' in our film industries and governments. We must have quotas to correct this unfair advantage that we have. We need to be more 'inclusive' '? Of course they aren't. It's only wonkers who are arrogant and racist enough to do that. It's the same with the equally nauseating 'multiculturalism'. When you want to experience another culture you go to the country of that culture. If anything, emigrating means losing one's culture. That's a sacrifice that humans make when they move to another country. They are intelligent enough to understand this. They might even be more than happy to leave it behind, or never had much interest in it in the first place. Wonkies are anti culture-and-diversity. They want humankind to be homogenised milk. Apparently, wonkie 'gods' know better than everyone else and have designated themselves the 'guardians of the collective conscience of humankind'.
The Orwellian sense of the term *diversity* is quite easy to expose for what it is, and what it is is very different from what it pretends to be.

What is diverse is different, distinct, special, unique. And it became that through various means. To say that a given culture must *diversify* is actually to say that it must stop being diverse and distinct and must take into itself what will break apart that diversity. In fact, it has become a social sin to advocate for real diversity -- if that means maintaining what is diverse.

The function of the term 'diversity' is uniquely applicable to European cultures because someone has decided that these cultures must become incorporated with other peoples, other cultures, other traditions, which begin a process of ending European diversity.

It has been said that Europe is not diverse. I mean racially or somatically. This is actually quite false. There is tremendous diversity within Europe in terms of somatic types, skin color (if that is relevant), languages, customs, etc. The idea that this must be diversified is absurd. One reason political leaders and economic leaders favor the importation of different peoples is because there is not enough natural population increase within the European nations. So without a population-importation there will not be enough people to keep things moving forward.
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iambiguous
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by iambiguous »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:10 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:03 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:51 pm
I didn't write that. Maybe you are mocking me and that's what I'm supposed to have been like. I don't know.
I am not resonating with you right now ok. I haven't the remotest understanding of what you are saying to me when you respond to my posts. . .goodbye.
OK
Treat me gentle and with a slow, patient, quiet mannerism,
You insulted me. You reacted with a lot of anger.
Hey, I'd like to be treated gentle and slow.

Shit on me, then ask me to treat you nice. Wow.

I'll leave you alone.

Keep telling us all what to do. I won't respond or read your posts.
Listen it's obvious from past history that our interactions are a headache. I'm sick and tired of you always making me out to be an angry person, you've already labeled me a misanthrope.
Well I guess that justifies the nitpicker you are then, and you see this as an insult, boo hoo, I'm tired of all your crap, in fact talking to you makes me feel physically ill to be honest.

I have never told people what to do with their lives like you accuse, I've only ever talked to others about how I live my life.

I am very pleased to hear you won't ever respond to my posts anymore, that's the best news I've heard in a long time , thank the lord.

You big fucking cry baby.
Start here: https://observer.com/2000/02/its-tom-wo ... e-stooges/

And not to be too cynical, but everyone can have their own Stooges. :wink:
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iambiguous
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

Post by iambiguous »

Maia wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:13 pm
iambiguous wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:36 pm
Maia wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 6:23 pm

While it can be fascinating finding out about other people's lives, we can never know them fully, because that's just in the nature of things. We're not them, in other words. I don't know why this should be a source of anxiety, though. The same is true with regard to speculation about what our lives might have been like under different circumstances.
That might be true. As a general observation. And this includes my own general observations as well. We just understand all of this from very different frames of mind. Your intuitive, spiritual Self as construed by my own rooted existentially in dasein fractured and fragmented "self" is a mystery. I do not possess anything like it. The closest I came to it "way back when" was as an objectivist...first in a God world, then in a No God world.

Now it just seems reasonable to think that in the absence of God -- or the secular equivalent of Him -- human existence is essentially meaningless and purposeless. And one by one we tumble over into the abyss that is oblivion. And yet from the cradle to the grave we can engage in any number of options that bring us fulfillment and satisfaction.

But...

But our individual lives here can be entirely different...making "failure to communicate" a very common thing. Being or not being cynical is exactly the sort of subject that precipitates the most disagreement. I'm cynical because, given how I understand the world around me it, seems reasonable to be. Both philosophically and otherwise.

You're not. Here and now, that seems reasonable to you. Then all the points we note above.
Yes, I agree.

We should all choose the path that seems best for us. I rather like having a positive outlook on life.
Good, we agree. If for very different reasons. Though, by all means, if down the road your intuitive, spiritual Self ever bumps into a particularly dire set of circumstances and meets its match, I'm your man.
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Re: Why is it so trendy to be cynical?

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And they say romance is dead...
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