Philosophy Now Forum

Another problem of evil is that it's a human error way of thinking and believing.

To clarify the apparent error of human judgemental thinking, watch ''CHIMP EMPIRE'' on Netflix.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:52 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:25 am

Harbal wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:40 am
That's the definition that makes me avoid using the word.

WHY?

The ACTUAL 'thing', which goes AGAINST 'the good', or 'God', is a VERY REAL 'thing'.

Some adult human beings seem to believe that "evil" is an actual force, like magnetism, or gravity.

Is NOT 'bad', or 'evil, the ACTUAL OPPOSITE of 'good', or 'right'? And thus could ACT LIKE an 'actual force', AGAINST 'good', for example?

Also, WHO are those adult human beings, which, to you, 'SEEM' to BELIEVE such as what you wrote here?

Are 'they' in this forum?

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:52 am Malicious intent could quite well exist within an individual, but I don't see how it can have an independent existence as an entity in its own right, like a malevolent force field of some sort.

Would you LIKE to SEE how 'it' CAN HAVE an INDEPENDENT existence, as an entity in its own right?

If yes, then 'you', alone, can DECIDE if 'it' is like a 'malevolent force field', of some sort, or NOT.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:14 am

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:52 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:25 am

WHY?

The ACTUAL 'thing', which goes AGAINST 'the good', or 'God', is a VERY REAL 'thing'.

Some adult human beings seem to believe that "evil" is an actual force, like magnetism, or gravity.

Is NOT 'bad', or 'evil, the ACTUAL OPPOSITE of 'good', or 'right'? And thus could ACT LIKE an 'actual force', AGAINST 'good', for example?

Also, WHO are those adult human beings, which, to you, 'SEEM' to BELIEVE such as what you wrote here?

Are 'they' in this forum?

Bad and good are just conditions, or states, by which we subjectively categorise certain situations. I don't think a force has intention, so, even if there were a force in addition to the four known to physics, it seems highly unlikely that its influence would be solely focused on what it considers to be good or bad for human beings.

Also, WHO are those adult human beings, which, to you, 'SEEM' to BELIEVE such as what you wrote here?

Are 'they' in this forum?

They are just some human beings; I can't list them as individuals. I don't know if anyone in this forum believes that "evil" is an actual ontological force, as Iwannaplato put it.

Would you LIKE to SEE how 'it' CAN HAVE an INDEPENDENT existence, as an entity in its own right?

If yes, then 'you', alone, can DECIDE if 'it' is like a 'malevolent force field', of some sort, or NOT.

If you are offering to explain it, then yes, please do.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:48 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:14 am

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:52 am
Some adult human beings seem to believe that "evil" is an actual force, like magnetism, or gravity.

Is NOT 'bad', or 'evil, the ACTUAL OPPOSITE of 'good', or 'right'? And thus could ACT LIKE an 'actual force', AGAINST 'good', for example?

Also, WHO are those adult human beings, which, to you, 'SEEM' to BELIEVE such as what you wrote here?

Are 'they' in this forum?

Bad and good are just conditions, or states, by which we subjectively categorise certain situations.

I agree and do NOT think otherwise.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:48 am I don't think a force has intention, so, even if there were a force in addition to the four known to physics, it seems highly unlikely that its influence would be solely focused on what it considers to be good or bad for human beings.

I agree and do NOT think otherwise.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:48 am

Also, WHO are those adult human beings, which, to you, 'SEEM' to BELIEVE such as what you wrote here?

Are 'they' in this forum?

They are just some human beings; I can't list them as individuals.

Okay.

SOME human beings 'seem to' and 'do' BELIEVE MANY 'things'.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:48 am I don't know if anyone in this forum believes that "evil" is an actual ontological force, as Iwannaplato put it.

Would you LIKE to SEE how 'it' CAN HAVE an INDEPENDENT existence, as an entity in its own right?

If yes, then 'you', alone, can DECIDE if 'it' is like a 'malevolent force field', of some sort, or NOT.

If you are offering to explain it, then yes, please do.

Malicious intent could quite well exist within an individual, but I don't see how it can have an independent existence as an entity in its own right, like a malevolent force field of some sort.

'Malicious intent' exists in and as a 'thought', ONLY.

Now, 'you', the 'person', and 'the entity', exist solely as 'thought', and 'emotion'.

'you', when there is 'malicious intent thinking' existing within that individual human body, are 'the entity', existing in 'your', or 'its', 'own right'.

Now, 'you', the 'maliciously intending being', are like a 'malevolent force, and/or field, of some sort, AGAINST 'those' 'people' who are existing as 'benevolent beings'.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:05 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:30 am IN the time it has taken me to look at and respond to this thread 10 children has died from lack of clean water.

Which was CAUSED and CREATED, SOLELY, BECAUSE of adult human beings.

No, none of them were caused by people.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:20 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:05 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:30 am IN the time it has taken me to look at and respond to this thread 10 children has died from lack of clean water.

Which was CAUSED and CREATED, SOLELY, BECAUSE of adult human beings.

No, none of them were caused by people.

What do you MEAN by 'No', 'none of them' 'were caused by people'?

What, EXACTLY, were you ASSUMING I was MEANING here?

And, WHO ELSE CAUSED the LACK OF UNCLEAN WATER IF it was NOT 'you', adult human beings? And/or WHO ELSE is PREVENTED and/or STOPPED the SUFFICIENT SUPPLY of CLEAN WATER to those DEAD' children IF it was NOT 'you', adult human beings?

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:02 am

'Malicious intent' exists in and as a 'thought', ONLY.

Now, 'you', the 'person', and 'the entity', exist solely as 'thought', and 'emotion'.

'you', when there is 'malicious intent thinking' existing within that individual human body, are 'the entity', existing in 'your', or 'its', 'own right'.

Now, 'you', the 'maliciously intending being', are like a 'malevolent force, and/or field, of some sort, AGAINST 'those' 'people' who are existing as 'benevolent beings'.

Yes, you could think of it like that, although I would describe myself as a malicious agent, rather than a malicious force. I never manage to do enough damage to be considered a force. But the point is: the malice arises within the individual; he doesn't absorb it from an invisible cloud of evil that pervades the atmosphere with the intention of contaminating those lacking the will to resist it, which is how some people seem to think "evil" works". And I don't have the names and addresses of those people, btw.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:31 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:20 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:05 am

Which was CAUSED and CREATED, SOLELY, BECAUSE of adult human beings.

No, none of them were caused by people.

What do you MEAN by 'No', 'none of them' 'were caused by people'?

What, EXACTLY, were you ASSUMING I was MEANING here?

And, WHO ELSE CAUSED the LACK OF UNCLEAN WATER IF it was NOT 'you', adult human beings? And/or WHO ELSE is PREVENTED and/or STOPPED the SUFFICIENT SUPPLY of CLEAN WATER to those DEAD' children IF it was NOT 'you', adult human beings?

An omnipotent, omniscient god is the cause of everything.

All I know is that the war in Ukraine must stop. All sides need to agree to a ceasefire. Concessions need to be made by the US and by Russia toward each other's interests. The war in Ukraine is becoming a torrent of evil that is spreading throughout the world. Putin needs to given some ground and he needs to accept that ground and negotiations must resume or not. Putin has deliberately brought evil into the world. I know not why but I believe it is because he does not trust the Chinese. I don't trust the Chinese leadership either. They will not share information with others and they will not open their doors for others to see what they are doing and why they are doing it. There must be more transparency among nations between each other, lest there be wars and strife. We do not know where Covid 19 came from. We do not know what it is or why it was. We must find out from China. If they do not wish to open their doors, then we must allow them to visit us to find out what is going on, even if it means allowing some of their surveillance balloons in. But their surveillance balloons also pose a risk to civilian aviation which is an issue also. The Chinese are afraid of what we do because of our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. We most atone for those things somehow. Atonement is perhaps being made in ways I am as yet unaware of but they must not be evil ways of atonement. They must be humane, civil, diplomatic and cooperative ways.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:02 am

'Malicious intent' exists in and as a 'thought', ONLY.

Now, 'you', the 'person', and 'the entity', exist solely as 'thought', and 'emotion'.

'you', when there is 'malicious intent thinking' existing within that individual human body, are 'the entity', existing in 'your', or 'its', 'own right'.

Now, 'you', the 'maliciously intending being', are like a 'malevolent force, and/or field, of some sort, AGAINST 'those' 'people' who are existing as 'benevolent beings'.

Yes, you could think of it like that, although I would describe myself as a malicious agent, rather than a malicious force.

Okay, and from what I have read from the words under the label "harbal" here the amount of time that 'you' are a so-called 'malicious agent, or malicious entity' I would say would not even be .00001% of the time, or something like that.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am I never manage to do enough damage to be considered a force.

But ANY Wrong or bad (evil) thinking, and/or evil doing, COUNTERACTS ANY Right or good thinking and doing. I was just pointing out how one way of thinking, good OR bad, OPPOSES the other, and so COULD BE seen as like; 'a force to be reckoned with'. For example if there was one human being who ALWAYS had GOOD and Right thinking, so the body was ALWAYS DOING GOOD and Right 'things', or was ALWAYS of GOOD and Right behavior, then this one WOULD BE 'a FORCE to be reckoned with', as some might say.

While ANY BAD or Wrong thinking and behavior could just be seen as an OPPOSING FORCE, to that previous one.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am But the point is: the malice arises within the individual;

But the point I was making IS: malicious thoughts, which arise within A human body, IS the ACTUAL 'individual person or entity', itself.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am he doesn't absorb it from an invisible cloud of evil that pervades the atmosphere with the intention of contaminating those lacking the will to resist it,

WHO does the 'he' word here reference, EXACTLY?

To me, the thinking, itself, IS 'the person', itself, which sometimes 'you', human beings, referred to as 'he', or 'she', back in the days when this was being written.

And, I AGREE that there is NO invisible cloud of evil OUTSIDE of the invisible (cloud) of thinking WITHIN the human body.

To me, 'evil', or just Wrong thinking and Wrong doing, exists SOLELY in 'the thinking' WITHIN 'the human body' AND WITH or FROM the Wrong behaviors of human bodies.

To me, 'evil' EXISTS when there is 'malicious or Wrong intent' WITHIN 'the thinking/the you' of human bodies.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am which is how some people seem to think "evil" works".

Okay. But I MUCH PREFER to just concentrate on and LOOK AT and DISCUSS what people ACTUALLY KNOW, FOR SURE, ABOUT what ACTUALLY HAPPENS and TAKES PLACE, RATHER THAN LOOKING AT and DISCUSSING what people THINK might be the case. This is BECAUSE EVERY one of 'you', people, have VERY DIFFERENT VIEWS ABOUT what MIGHT happen AND what MIGHT take place.

DISCOVER what the 'evil' words refers to, EXACTLY, and then, and ONLY THEN, we can LOOK AT and DISCUSS HOW 'evil' ACTUALLY WORKS.

If I recall correctly it was "iwannaplato" who started off DISCUSSING what the 'evil' word could mean or could refer to, EXACTLY. So, WHY NOT the rest of 'us' WORK ON 'that' supplied definition, and PROGRESS and MOVE FORWARD FROM 'there'.

Or, if 'we' ALL just wrote how "other people" SEEM TO THINK 'evil' WORKS, then 'we' could go ON and ON for thousands UPON thousands of years MORE, all the time GETTING NOWHERE.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am And I don't have the names and addresses of those people, btw.

Okay, so about we just COMPLETELY and UTTERLY DISREGARD what some MIGHT be 'thinking' or what some SEEM to be 'thinking', and just CONCENTRATE ON what 'you' ACTUALLY KNOW, FOR SURE.

Now, if you do NOT YET KNOW what the word 'evil' MEANS or REFERS TO, EXACTLY, like you acknowledged before, and WOULD LIKE TO, then let us BEGIN with what "iwannaplato" STARTED?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:54 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:31 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:20 am

No, none of them were caused by people.

What do you MEAN by 'No', 'none of them' 'were caused by people'?

What, EXACTLY, were you ASSUMING I was MEANING here?

And, WHO ELSE CAUSED the LACK OF UNCLEAN WATER IF it was NOT 'you', adult human beings? And/or WHO ELSE is PREVENTED and/or STOPPED the SUFFICIENT SUPPLY of CLEAN WATER to those DEAD' children IF it was NOT 'you', adult human beings?

An omnipotent, omniscient god is the cause of everything.

This IS ANOTHER GREAT example of the ABSOLUTE ABSURD and STUPID WAY in which these people would speak, back in the days when this was being written.

This one BELIEVES, ABSOLUTELY, that there is ABSOLUTELY NO so-called 'omnipotent, omniscient god' YET when I CHALLENGE and QUESTION this one ABOUT the CLAIMS it makes, 'it' ACTUALLY SAYS and WRITES that the NONEXISTENT 'omnipotent, omniscient god' CAUSED what 'it' CLAIMS is true.

AFTER I POINT OUT, by ALLUDING to the ACTUAL Fact that it was was 'you', ADULT HUMAN BEINGS, who ACTUALLY CREATED 'the situation', which CAUSED the ACTUAL DEATH of 'those children', then INSTEAD of taking absolutely ANY RESPONSIBILITY AT ALL, this one DID what ALL adult human beings DID, back in those OLDEN DAYS, which was to BLAME some OTHER 'thing' or some OTHER 'one' rather than LOOK AT the ACTUAL Truth.

From the ACTUAL examples provided here there is NOW NO wonder AT ALL WHY it took those people, back then, SO LONG to FIND OUT, SEE, and UNDERSTAND what the ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Truth of 'things' WERE. They WERE just SO Dishonest, back then.

As I have been POINTING OUT and SHOWING here, the 'love of money' is NOT the 'root of evil' and that the ACTUAL 'root' of ALL 'evil' WAS: Dishonesty.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:23 pm All I know is that the war in Ukraine must stop.

Is 'this', REALLY, ALL you KNOW?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:23 pm All sides need to agree to a ceasefire.

But there are NO ACTUAL "sides".

"Sides" are ONLY CREATED when 'you', human beings, DECIDE TO CHOOSE A "side".

For example, there are NO ACTUAL "sides" to Nature/Nurture, Creation/Evolution, NOR ANY 'thing' "ELSE". There is ONLY One Life, One Existence, One Universe, One Truth, AND One Reality, and ONLY WHEN one learns, and/or uncovers, and UNDERSTANDS HOW TO LOOK AT and SEE 'things' PROPERLY and CORRECTLY, then UNTIL THEN 'you', people, WILL CONTINUE to LOOK AT and SEE the One and ONLY 'Thing', FROM "sides", or FROM DIFFERENT perspectives. Thus, continuing to CAUSE and CREATE the arguing, bickering, fighting, warring, AND KILLING, which 'you', adult human beings, are OBVIOUSLY DOING, IN the days when this WAS being written.

I could NOT and WOULD NOT 'force' NOR 'teach' ANY of 'you' to LEARN HOW TO LOOK AT and SEE 'things' properly AND correctly, nor 'force' NOR 'teach' ANY of 'you' to LEARN HOW TO DO what IS Right, and GOOD, in Life, IF NONE of 'you' were PREPARED TO YET.

HOWEVER, for ANY one who IS Truly INTERESTED IN LEARNING ANY of these 'things', then I am MORE than READY and WILLING to BEGIN.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:23 pm Concessions need to be made by the US and by Russia toward each other's interests. The war in Ukraine is becoming a torrent of evil that is spreading throughout the world. Putin needs to given some ground and he needs to accept that ground and negotiations must resume or not. Putin has deliberately brought evil into the world. I know not why but I believe it is because he does not trust the Chinese. I don't trust the Chinese leadership either. They will not share information with others and they will not open their doors for others to see what they are doing and why they are doing it. There must be more transparency among nations between each other, lest there be wars and strife. We do not know where Covid 19 came from. We do not know what it is or why it was. We must find out from China. If they do not wish to open their doors, then we must allow them to visit us to find out what is going on, even if it means allowing some of their surveillance balloons in. But their surveillance balloons also pose a risk to civilian aviation which is an issue also. The Chinese are afraid of what we do because of our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. We most atone for those things somehow. Atonement is perhaps being made in ways I am as yet unaware of but they must not be evil ways of atonement. They must be humane, civil, diplomatic and cooperative ways.

Here we can SEE WHY warring CONTINUED.

This one here STILL SEES 'the world' AS: "us" AND "them", and it WAS for as long as 'they', BACK THEN, CHOSE to LOOK AT human beings AS: "us" AND "them", 'they' CONTINUED to argue, bicker, fight, war, AND KILL "each other".

[quote="Greatest I am" post_id=636898 time=1682003004 user_id=4303]
[quote=Advocate post_id=636790 time=1681958455 user_id=15238]
"Good" has the misfortune in English of opposing both bad (effect) and evil (intent).
[/quote]

I see no misfortune, just a position, but no argument.

Regards
DL
[/quote]

I was concurring that evil requires intent.

[quote=Age post_id=636991 time=1682055729 user_id=16237]
[quote=Advocate post_id=636790 time=1681958455 user_id=15238]
[quote="Greatest I am" post_id=636755 time=1681939325 user_id=4303]


Do you believe in Gaia?

Doubtful, but nature would have to be a conscious entity for us to see evil intent.

Hint. Mens Rea.

Can nature be accused of doing evil?

Without an evil intent, there is no evil.

Gaia did not gain the pleasure evil acts pay and would not do as you think of her. No that she is real.

Regards
DL
[/quote]

The Gaia hypothesis is either that the Earth is a sentient being (bullshit) or that the Earth's ecosystem can be understood as a giant organism (metaphorical, true).

"Good" has the misfortune in English of opposing both bad (effect) and evil (intent).
[/quote]

WHY is 'this', supposedly, 'a misfortune'?
[/quote]

I think that's obvious and basic - because it confuses the issue. To clarify it we must understand whether we're taking about effects or intents.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:50 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am All I know is that the war in Ukraine must stop.

Is 'this', REALLY, ALL you KNOW?

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am All sides need to agree to a ceasefire.

But there are NO ACTUAL "sides".

"Sides" are ONLY CREATED when 'you', human beings, DECIDE TO CHOOSE A "side".

For example, there are NO ACTUAL "sides" to Nature/Nurture, Creation/Evolution, NOR ANY 'thing' "ELSE". There is ONLY One Life, One Existence, One Universe, One Truth, AND One Reality, and ONLY WHEN one learns, and/or uncovers, and UNDERSTANDS HOW TO LOOK AT and SEE 'things' PROPERLY and CORRECTLY, then UNTIL THEN 'you', people, WILL CONTINUE to LOOK AT and SEE the One and ONLY 'Thing', FROM "sides", or FROM DIFFERENT perspectives. Thus, continuing to CAUSE and CREATE the arguing, bickering, fighting, warring, AND KILLING, which 'you', adult human beings, are OBVIOUSLY DOING, IN the days when this WAS being written.

I could NOT and WOULD NOT 'force' NOR 'teach' ANY of 'you' to LEARN HOW TO LOOK AT and SEE 'things' properly AND correctly, nor 'force' NOR 'teach' ANY of 'you' to LEARN HOW TO DO what IS Right, and GOOD, in Life, IF NONE of 'you' were PREPARED TO YET.

HOWEVER, for ANY one who IS Truly INTERESTED IN LEARNING ANY of these 'things', then I am MORE than READY and WILLING to BEGIN.

Harbal wrote: ↑Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:37 am Concessions need to be made by the US and by Russia toward each other's interests. The war in Ukraine is becoming a torrent of evil that is spreading throughout the world. Putin needs to given some ground and he needs to accept that ground and negotiations must resume or not. Putin has deliberately brought evil into the world. I know not why but I believe it is because he does not trust the Chinese. I don't trust the Chinese leadership either. They will not share information with others and they will not open their doors for others to see what they are doing and why they are doing it. There must be more transparency among nations between each other, lest there be wars and strife. We do not know where Covid 19 came from. We do not know what it is or why it was. We must find out from China. If they do not wish to open their doors, then we must allow them to visit us to find out what is going on, even if it means allowing some of their surveillance balloons in. But their surveillance balloons also pose a risk to civilian aviation which is an issue also. The Chinese are afraid of what we do because of our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. We most atone for those things somehow. Atonement is perhaps being made in ways I am as yet unaware of but they must not be evil ways of atonement. They must be humane, civil, diplomatic and cooperative ways.

Here we can SEE WHY warring CONTINUED.

This one here STILL SEES 'the world' AS: "us" AND "them", and it WAS for as long as 'they', BACK THEN, CHOSE to LOOK AT human beings AS: "us" AND "them", 'they' CONTINUED to argue, bicker, fight, war, AND KILL "each other".

I really must protest, Age, none of the above words attributed to me are mine.