Philosophy Now Forum

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:31 pm I've noticed that. He doesn't offer anything that he/she/it can be criticised of..but continuously ruins threads with his/her/its ridiculous childish questioning.

Yes.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:41 pm Actually, you and I appear to believe pretty much the same thing about this entity (Pantheism), so why not just call this being God?

Because of all that has become associated with the name and the idea.

Maybe someday I'll be able to use the name free of all the distortions of the past... but apparently it doesn't feel suitable yet.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:32 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:34 pm maybe a thing like the dog, or the dog's dinner would not even exist unless there was a dog, cat, flea, or human to experience such things.

Seems like it's all working together.

I agree. All apparently separate entities are inter-related.I believe that the only thing that separates one entity from another is the use one entity has for another entity.

If there were a Heaven there would be no separation.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:15 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:59 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:17 pm
It would not since you have only to look carefully at the universe to see just how bizarrely absent such an idea is.
The universe we live in is one which lights tour night sky with a supernova on the birth of the baby Jesus, guiding 3 idiotic astrologers, which destroyed an advanced civilisation of a trillion super intelligent beings o a planet under that star.
Its the sort of universe in which we evolve bipedally with the result of chronic back pain, and bad feet.

How do you think it's all supposed to be?

To answer you fuly; that is not even a question.
What makes you think that is a valid question?

What would be a valid question to ask of you in response to the paragraph you wrote above? What do you want? Do you approve of the universe as it is? If not, how do you think it should be? What makes you think you know anything? Are any of these questions valid?

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:44 am If there were a Heaven there would be no separation.

Maybe the only separation is that which we imagine. Maybe if we could see how whole it all is, and ourselves within it, our perspective might shift?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:57 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:44 am If there were a Heaven there would be no separation.

Maybe the only separation is that which we imagine. Maybe if we could see how whole it all is, and ourselves within it, our perspective might shift?

It's tragic that we can't see from the absolute perspective. If we could do so there would be no wars or cruelty.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:35 pm

reasonvemotion wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:00 am Hans Wilhiem is a mystic New Ager (the man in your little video) and appears to be in a lot of confusion and fits into a spiritual perspective what he, they or you have constructed.

They do not believe in evil. Therefore, they do not accept man's problem as separation by sin from God.

Instead, they believe that each of us has forgotten his or her own divinity. Therefore, the New Age solution is to seek "higher consciousness" ...Each of these diverse practices has the same purpose: to awaken the god in man.

Ah. I don't know what his specific trip is, I just like the way the video described all as energy. Although I, too, think that greater consciousness is useful, I don't think that we're supposed to strive to get back to a god.

'you' are NOT 'supposed' to do absolutely ANT thing.

'you' are absolutely FREE to do absolutely ANY thing of 'your' OWN CHOOSING.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:35 pm All of this language is very tricky because there are so many screwed up associations with it.

Like 'your' associations? Or are 'your' associations NEVER 'screwed up'?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:35 pm From my perspective... we need to notice what we create and resist, as that creates more of it, whatever it is.

WHY do 'you' FEEL the NEED to TELL "others' what 'we' NEED to NOTICE?

And, WHERE does this NEED that 'you' have here come from, EXACTLY?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:35 pm We're already part of the whole flow... and what we're doing here is not the final word of who we are. We are spiritual beings having a physical experience for whatever reasons/exploration we might need or want to play out.

This here is OBVIOUSLY NOT the ACTUAL Truth of 'things', and just as OBVIOUS, 'you' STILL have a LOT MORE to LEARN and UNDERSTAND here.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:31 pm He continuously ruins threads with his/her/its ridiculous childish questioning.

Age is the only one on my ignore list. This makes it much better for reading through threads as it omits his lengthy whining in capital letters -- which usually looks like some kind of psycho note pieced together from cut-out letters of a magazine so that he can tell everyone how wrong they are in his creepy obsessed fashion. Whatever.

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:02 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:57 am Maybe the only separation is that which we imagine. Maybe if we could see how whole it all is, and ourselves within it, our perspective might shift?

It's tragic that we can't see from the absolute perspective. If we could do so there would be no wars or cruelty.

It's hard to understand how extreme people have become in their views and behavior. How can they not see how ridiculous and destructive it is? Are they intoxicated or possessed or so full of rage they've gone mad? I imagine something will happen to snap humankind out of that. It's such a senseless path. At the very least, maybe we'll serve as a valuable warning for future generations.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:01 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:45 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:41 pm Sounds good, but I think even 'I Am' is inference. Who is 'I', and what is 'Am'? Do we really know?

To communicate with words requires inference.

But to get closer, "I Am" without the I thought, without the inferred "I" which happens in meditation, leaves only Am. Leaves only being.

Yes, being. What do we do with that?

As you asked for advice, in this particular situation, you should answer your own question. Then, you share it with me for discussion as a form of feedback. I wouldn't advise that in all situations, but I did request your trust, so what you share for feedback in the form of answering your own enquiry should reflect that significance. I think in this way we can quickly move beyond debating any premises that might appear to be in conflict, and actually have a discussion about more than the weather, rather than trying to agree with one another, or bickering.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:44 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:02 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:57 am Maybe the only separation is that which we imagine. Maybe if we could see how whole it all is, and ourselves within it, our perspective might shift?

It's tragic that we can't see from the absolute perspective. If we could do so there would be no wars or cruelty.

It's hard to understand how extreme people have become in their views and behavior. How can they not see how ridiculous and destructive it is? Are they intoxicated or possessed or so full of rage they've gone mad? I imagine something will happen to snap humankind out of that. It's such a senseless path. At the very least, maybe we'll serve as a valuable warning for future generations.

People are just stupid in so many ways. There are so many varied personalities..it does make for a rather interesting world. Unfortunately, when the personality type that sociopath/psychopath combines with religious idiocy...things can get extreme. Then you can end up with loads of them banding together. The same goes for any ideology. The key difference with atheism, is that it can't be blamed as an organised group of "delinquents"!!

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:44 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:02 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:57 am Maybe the only separation is that which we imagine. Maybe if we could see how whole it all is, and ourselves within it, our perspective might shift?

It's tragic that we can't see from the absolute perspective. If we could do so there would be no wars or cruelty.

It's hard to understand how extreme people have become in their views and behavior. How can they not see how ridiculous and destructive it is? Are they intoxicated or possessed or so full of rage they've gone mad? I imagine something will happen to snap humankind out of that. It's such a senseless path. At the very least, maybe we'll serve as a valuable warning for future generations.

What happens when fairness answers unfairness?
It's a rhetorical question.

Because of what does happen, unfairness begins to answer unfairness.

Now, it should not be hard to understand.

(As you notice, this is the doing of what I advised, at your request, in my previous posting. I answer my own question, and offer it to you for feedback, which is not required btw, if you have nothing to say).

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:55 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:44 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:02 am
It's tragic that we can't see from the absolute perspective. If we could do so there would be no wars or cruelty.

It's hard to understand how extreme people have become in their views and behavior. How can they not see how ridiculous and destructive it is? Are they intoxicated or possessed or so full of rage they've gone mad? I imagine something will happen to snap humankind out of that. It's such a senseless path. At the very least, maybe we'll serve as a valuable warning for future generations.

People are just stupid in so many ways. There are so many varied personalities..it does make for a rather interesting world. Unfortunately, when the personality type that sociopath/psychopath combines with religious idiocy...things can get extreme. Then you can end up with loads of them banding together. The same goes for any ideology. The key difference with atheism, is that it can't be blamed as an organised group of "delinquents"!!

The way I see it, all that critical attention (energy) should be directed inward.

You obviously disagree. Please, don't justify why it's not directed inward. I don't care to debate it. Just an observation.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:41 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:31 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:03 pm He apparently lacks the courage to offer much of his own thinking. Instead, he attempts to question everyone else based on his misunderstandings and projections so it becomes a garbled mess to wade through.

Age says some astute things. He gets frustrated.

We all do. That's what makes this forum interesting.

But nobody cares to read or respond to someone else's thousands of questions unless it's to 'play' with them.

The BEST WAY to UNDERSTAND "another" is to just ask Truly OPEN CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, and then WAIT for Truly OPEN and Honest replies to THOSE QUESTIONS.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:41 pm Age hides behind questioning others.

What do 'you' think or IMAGINE 'I' could possibly be HIDING behind ASKING QUESTIONS "lacewing"? REMEMBER, if I am NOT be QUESTIONED and CHALLENGED, then I have NOTHING to HIDE.

Also, has it REALLY NEVER even occurred to 'you' that I ASK QUESTIONS to just GAIN CLARITY and A BETTER UNDERSTANDING?

Or, do 'you' REALLY think or BELIEVE that EVERY one has to behave in the WAY that 'you' do here?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:41 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:31 pm Absolute truth and relative truth is a good contemplation start.

Personally, I don't believe in absolute truth.

WHY NOT?

Do you have ANY ACTUAL PROOF for YOUR BELIEF here?

Actually, do you have ANY ACTUAL REASON for YOUR BELIEF here?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:41 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:31 pmSri Nisargadatta Maharaj said that all any person can know for sure is, I Am. All else is inference.

Sounds good, but I think even 'I Am' is inference. Who is 'I', and what is 'Am'?

The 'AM' refers to the BEING, (in the) HERE-NOW.

The 'I' refers to thee One and ONLY Being, which IS thee One and ONLY Universe, Itself. SEEN, with the visible eyes as the physical matter, AND, SEEN, KNOWN and UNDERSTOOD by thee invisible Mind''s Eye.

There IS, by the way, ANOTHER 'thing', besides the 'I AM', which is KNOWN, for sure.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:41 pm Do we really know?

YES.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:41 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:31 pm I’ve contemplated this in many situations involving many elements, with attention upon the primal elements that we all experience, and realize it is truth, and it does not change. That makes it absolute.

I think that just makes it 'agreed upon' by those who experience through similar means.

AND, what is 'it', if NOT 'absolute', when 'it' IS AGREED UPON by EVERY one?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:41 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:31 pm This is just a contemplation I just had inspired by this thread*, and of course it is true because I am worthy of knowing it, for empirical reasons … so see ‘ya later. There’s work to be done in a man’s world.

I'm glad you feel inspiration! I often do too! My boyfriend never knows what inspiration I'll come up with next. I'm very grateful he appreciates me!

Will 'you' SHARE ANY of 'your' INSPIRATION with 'us' here in this forum?

If no, then WHY NOT?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:41 pm I think whatever meaning we find in life is part of the artwork of our own experience. One person's meaning is not another's, and that's okay! We don't have to agree. What really matters is what we do with it. And that's the tricky part because people do very different things with the 'meaning' they see. Since it's surely impossible that infinite perspectives are going to see everything the same way,

Is this one of these NOT One Truths? Or, is this True or is it NOT?

Seems like 'you' are ALLOWED to EXPRESS what 'you' CLAIM to be ABSOLUTE Truths, although 'you' BELIEVE absolutely NONE exist.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:41 pm perhaps the best we can hope for is continually aiming for BALANCE.

BUT, there IS A WAY WHERE EVERY one, or ALL, do SEE Everything the SAME WAY, and which, by the way, is WHERE BALANCE EXISTS ALSO.

HOWEVER, WHEN people like "yourself", "lacewing", who have and HOLD ONTO VERY STRONG BELIEFS, then 'you' become completely BLINDED and CLOSED to LEARNING and SEEING NEW 'things'. Like, for example, DIFFERENT WAYS of LOOKING AT and SEEING 'things'. BECAUSE of 'your' BELIEFS 'you' are, literally, STUCK in the PERSPECTIVE that 'you' OBVIOUSLY HAVE and are HOLDING ONTO, right now.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:41 pm That's not a dirty word/concept. It's reasonable for varying perspectives sharing space. What can we agree on in common... and then the rest becomes an exercise of give and take, yes?

NO.

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:13 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:55 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:44 am
It's hard to understand how extreme people have become in their views and behavior. How can they not see how ridiculous and destructive it is? Are they intoxicated or possessed or so full of rage they've gone mad? I imagine something will happen to snap humankind out of that. It's such a senseless path. At the very least, maybe we'll serve as a valuable warning for future generations.

People are just stupid in so many ways. There are so many varied personalities..it does make for a rather interesting world. Unfortunately, when the personality type that sociopath/psychopath combines with religious idiocy...things can get extreme. Then you can end up with loads of them banding together. The same goes for any ideology. The key difference with atheism, is that it can't be blamed as an organised group of "delinquents"!!

The way I see it, all that critical attention (energy) should be directed inward.

Well, since a sage\God after a long time of insisting I am a sap a fool, now insists I am perfect. So, if there is anything disagreable about me, then certainly those with disagreement should probably self analyse.

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:13 amYou obviously disagree. Please, don't justify why it's not directed inward. I don't care to debate it. Just an observation.

Woops!!