Philosophy Now Forum

AS said : I am glad to hear that I have something to look forward to with Goethe and his 'intimate' moment because I feel as if I was lead into this book on false pretenses...it was implied there would be sex...I was promised sex damn it!

Me : See that Goethe with his glowing flow of volcanic eruptions. Not impressed. Says she whose flight to Rome was cancelled by some ASH.

M.

mhoraine wrote:AS said : I am glad to hear that I have something to look forward to with Goethe and his 'intimate' moment because I feel as if I was lead into this book on false pretenses...it was implied there would be sex...I was promised sex damn it!

Me : See that Goethe with his glowing flow of volcanic eruptions. Not impressed. Says she whose flight to Rome was cancelled by some ASH.

M.

NOOOOOOOO! Cancelled for good or just postponed? You are going to try again...I hope.

Hi AS

Thanks so much for your sympathetic response - I appreciate it more than you know.

Rome trip cancelled for the time being. Amazingly,the airspace was closed only for about a day - coincidence that it was my day to roam ? What would Goethe say about this ?
I picked up ' Italian Journey' for some thoughts - { having already dipped into Goethe quotes and found : ' Destiny grants us our wishes, but in its own way in order to give us something beyond our wishes' }

In his Second Roman visit ( I should be so lucky ! ) p405 - he reflects on what he has gleaned in his year of living among strangers - '... all really intelligent people recognize, some in a refined way, some in a gross way, that the moment is everything...the sole privilege of a reasonable being is to behave in such a manner, in so far as the choice lies with him, that his life contains the greatest possible sum of reasonable and happy moments.'

I really must go back to where I left him....can't remember where....and give Goethe the attention he deserves.

Thanks again, AS, for being a true companion along the way.
M.

mhoraine wrote:Hi AS

Thanks so much for your sympathetic response - I appreciate it more than you know.

Rome trip cancelled for the time being. Amazingly,the airspace was closed only for about a day - coincidence that it was my day to roam ? What would Goethe say about this ?
I picked up ' Italian Journey' for some thoughts - { having already dipped into Goethe quotes and found : ' Destiny grants us our wishes, but in its own way in order to give us something beyond our wishes' }

In his Second Roman visit ( I should be so lucky ! ) p405 - he reflects on what he has gleaned in his year of living among strangers - '... all really intelligent people recognize, some in a refined way, some in a gross way, that the moment is everything...the sole privilege of a reasonable being is to behave in such a manner, in so far as the choice lies with him, that his life contains the greatest possible sum of reasonable and happy moments.'

I really must go back to where I left him....can't remember where....and give Goethe the attention he deserves.

Thanks again, AS, for being a true companion along the way.
M.

Hi M,

Thank you for getting me interested in reading. I am enjoying Goethe's journey. On Page 243 April 10th, he writes:

"We returned home in a very different frame of mind from that of yesterday. It seemed deplorable that such a great institution should be in decline at the very time when an enterprise as vulgar as the one we had seen the day before should be vigorously flourishing."

I wonder if Goethe realized he had written almost a page dedicated to the "great institution" and yet devoted almost 5 pages to the "vulgar enterprise"! I wish I could have been there to tease/ask him if he thought that his own interest in such "vulgarities" showed in his work. I really like to piss people off sometimes...lol.

Oh and I loved the reference to Emma Hart. What an interesting life she lead and how beautiful she was!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma,_Lady_Hamilton

Oh my....

yes, so much to talk of....art and ladies and monsters....

I turned to the pages you mentioned. After running the gauntlet of the Prince of Pallagonia’s dizzying follies, I laughed out loud at Goethe’s :
‘ if one hopes to escape all this by entering the house just inside the door one is confronted by the laurel-leaved head of a Roman emperor on the body of a dwarf who sits on a dolphin….the legs of the chairs have been unequally sawn off…the normal chairs have spikes hidden under their velvet-cushioned seats….’

The house of horrors ? So, why was I charmed by Goethe’s description of the carved crucifix which instantly brought to mind a phrase of Daniel Dennett ?
‘…of considerable size…painted in realistic colours…[it] is fixed flat to the ceiling. Into the navel of the Crucified a hook has been screwed from which hangs a chain. The end of this chain is made fast to the head of a man, kneeling in prayer and painted and varnished like everything else. He hangs suspended in the air as a symbol of ceaseless devotions of the present owner.’ P241
Skyhooks.

What a great picture….but Kniep only drew one of the wild, stoned experiences :
‘ a woman with a horse’s head is seated in a chair playing cards with... a cavalier in old-fashioned clothes. He has a griffin’s head , dressed in a full-bottomed wig with a crown perched on top of it.’

Today this doesn’t sound peculiar at all. Why would Goethe say : ‘ one confirmed old bachelor by himself has rarely produced anything sensible….but a celibate group can create the greatest of works…’ p242

Even at the time, this mad Prince ( will have to look him up ! ) seems to have been the ‘spiritual heir’ of Vicino Orsini. Photographs of such ‘monsters’ can be seen here : http://www.romeartlover.it/Bomarzo.html

My fascination with Goethe continues….there is so much more to be said on his life, poetry, plays and the music so inspired….endless….

M.

Hi M,

I am still enjoying Goethe. I finally caught up with Goethe and his 'intimate' moment on page 328. Are you kidding me? He's not going to kiss and tell? Seriously? Well then fine...I will just read between the lines when he says...

"The moon shone like a second sun.."
"...glowing rock as they were ejected from the abyss of the cone."
"My Hostess, as I shall call her, since I have seldom eaten a more exquisite supper..."



Oh and there were 2 other places I was going to comment on but I can only remember one at the moment. On the top of page 317 he says,

"Speaking for myself, I too believe that humanity will win in the long run; I am only afraid that at the same time the world will have turned into one huge hospital where everyone is everybody else's humane nurse."

I wasn't quite certain of what he meant because I have never read anything by Herder in order to have a frame of reference. But I am taking it to mean that he does not condone everyone being in everyone else's business? If that is what he meant, I doubt very seriously he has much to worry about as mankind does not appear to be naturally humane but rather innately self centered. In fact, it seems to me there are more people fighting against being humane than for it. At least that has been my experience today.