For the discussion of all things philosophical.
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well actually there was a time when the “Cult of Reason” (a cult being a religion in France) was the official religion of the state in France. I do believe temples and the whole nine yards. So say what you want but people do worship human capability.
Yes, very good. But is the world basically chaotic? If so how can intelligent animals such as mankind discover any sort of truth about what will happen next?bobmax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:24 pmTruth cannot be explained or analyzed.Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:17 pmYes, but does The Truth exist as if the world is not chaotic, or does The Truth exist as man's aspiration and hope towards one of the virtues that transcend explanation and analysis?bobmax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:49 pm
Isn't it the same reason that chooses the best?
And reason on what grounds this choice, if not on itself?
Being there is the same multiple, which in its essence is the original subject-object split.
While being is what, being upstream of the split, allows it.
Being is the goal of every philosophy, of every spirituality.
Certainly there is gray in existence.
There can only be gray.
If there was white or black there would be the absolute!
While the absolute cannot be there: it would be its annihilation.
The Truth is not there, the Truth is.
Truth being what allows every explanation and every analysis.
Therefore Truth does not have a why.
However, while transcending any desire to understand, Truth is also what you have closest to yourself.
Because you are the Truth!
What else could you ever be?
man is as he thinks, but he doesn't have to entertain any thought he does not which to, even if he should.
This observation of yours is very important.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:53 pm You get out of bed tomorrow. You have the day ahead of you. Can you connect what you wrote in the post above with your decisions, goals, reactions, etc?
Because of love.Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:22 pmYes, very good. But is the world basically chaotic? If so how can intelligent animals such as mankind discover any sort of truth about what will happen next?bobmax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:24 pm Truth cannot be explained or analyzed.
Truth being what allows every explanation and every analysis.
Therefore Truth does not have a why.
However, while transcending any desire to understand, Truth is also what you have closest to yourself.
Because you are the Truth!
What else could you ever be?
Again, sounds good to me with the exception of your choice of vocabulary : the word 'love'. Please can you use a synonym for 'love' that excludes the sentimental (e.g. love makes the world go round) , the banal (e.g. he lovesbobmax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:33 pmBecause of love.Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:22 pmYes, very good. But is the world basically chaotic? If so how can intelligent animals such as mankind discover any sort of truth about what will happen next?bobmax wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:24 pm Truth cannot be explained or analyzed.
Truth being what allows every explanation and every analysis.
Therefore Truth does not have a why.
However, while transcending any desire to understand, Truth is also what you have closest to yourself.
Because you are the Truth!
What else could you ever be?
This is in my opinion the only possibility.
Chaos simmers in the depths of the world.
But nevertheless we live in the Cosmos. And so we can go into the world trying to understand it.
Cosmos is the manifestation of unconditional love.
Cosmos could not have been there, this horrible possibility has always been with me.
That the Cosmos is is an absurdity, its existence is so improbable that it borders on impossibility.
Yet the Cosmos is!
The impossible is possible, it is reality...
It can only be the fruit of love.
What you list is not love.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:12 am Again, sounds good to me with the exception of your choice of vocabulary : the word 'love'. Please can you use a synonym for 'love' that excludes the sentimental (e.g. love makes the world go round) , the banal (e.g. he loves
single malts ) and the sexual connotations( e.g. he is passionately in love with her) ?
I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.bobmax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:23 pmWhat you list is not love.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:12 am Again, sounds good to me with the exception of your choice of vocabulary : the word 'love'. Please can you use a synonym for 'love' that excludes the sentimental (e.g. love makes the world go round) , the banal (e.g. he loves
single malts ) and the sexual connotations( e.g. he is passionately in love with her) ?
I think the word that most conveys the idea of love is "compassion".
But that is still insufficient.
Because it is the One.
That is, God, the Being.
God and love are the same.
God loves himself.
What you have listed may be understood as compassion, but from my experience genuine compassion is so much more.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:10 pm I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.
However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?
The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
Forgive me for saying this, but what a load of flipping bollocks.bobmax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:43 pm
The rare times I've been compassion, because you don't feel compassion but you are, it was all-encompassing.
There is nothing that is not the object of compassion.
Everything is wrapped in compassion.
I cry for every person, every animal, every life, every thing, for every event.
It must have to do with the total lack of freedom...
But behind this lack, compassion seems to suggest absolute freedom.
It would appear that truth is a simple logical descriptor, but it is not.promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:58 pm "I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same."
by the ideas 'love' and 'truth' i understand those aspects of existing things that while determined to be what they are with perfect necessity, are not necessary modes of existence in themselves. 'god' or nature, on the other hand, is a necessarily existing thing in addition to being determined with perfect necessity.
i should narrow that down to just 'love' tho. 'truth' is just a logical descriptor, not a 'concept' or a thing or a process or anything experiential. But 'love', whatever it is or means, is certainly a contingent feature of the world and not to be identified with the essential nature of Nature.
, You resemble Marianne in Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility.bobmax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:43 pmWhat you have listed may be understood as compassion, but from my experience genuine compassion is so much more.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:10 pm I agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.
However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?
The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
The rare times I've been compassion, because you don't feel compassion but you are, it was all-encompassing.
There is nothing that is not the object of compassion.
Everything is wrapped in compassion.
I cry for every person, every animal, every life, every thing, for every event.
It must have to do with the total lack of freedom...
But behind this lack, compassion seems to suggest absolute freedom.
yea but you are forming a god in your own image and likeness, which isn't the Living God. the concept is that the Living God who is what He is forms you into His image and likeness. if you form your own god, it may be a god by definition, but its only what you think is good in your own judgement, and technically narcissistic and that god only exists in your imagination.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:10 pmI agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.bobmax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:23 pmWhat you list is not love.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:12 am Again, sounds good to me with the exception of your choice of vocabulary : the word 'love'. Please can you use a synonym for 'love' that excludes the sentimental (e.g. love makes the world go round) , the banal (e.g. he loves
single malts ) and the sexual connotations( e.g. he is passionately in love with her) ?
I think the word that most conveys the idea of love is "compassion".
But that is still insufficient.
Because it is the One.
That is, God, the Being.
God and love are the same.
God loves himself.
However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?
The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
You say " the concept is-----". Note you use the definite article. Or are there as many gods as there are persons? The only way out of the dilemma is negative theology. According to negative theology nobody has any authority to affirm God is this or God is that. All we can know is there is something that is not ourself.DPMartin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:26 pmyea but you are forming a god in your own image and likeness, which isn't the Living God. the concept is that the Living God who is what He is forms you into His image and likeness. if you form your own god, it may be a god by definition, but its only what you think is good in your own judgement, and technically narcissistic and that god only exists in your imagination.Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:10 pmI agree God and love are the same. God and truth are the same. God and beauty are the same.
However 'compassion' doesn't explain enough. Is compassion the same as feeling affection? Pity? Training? Educating? Soldiering? Empathising? Feeling sympathy? Feeling righteous anger? Being compassionate towards your own nation? Being compassionate towards animals other than mankind? Being compassionate towards the truths of science? Compassion towards child molesters? Compassion towards your own bad behaviour? Is self sacrifice the necessary and sufficient condition for compassion?
The real problem is how to apply the three virtues that comprise God into how to live well. If you are going to say compassion is the key then you need to be able to say a good deal more about what compassion means to you. There have been almost uncountable stories and plays also Hollywood films with the theme of compassion in action.
