Philosophy Now Forum

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:30 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:00 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:55 pm

So are you positing that "magic" can be explained/measured using the tools of science--electromagnetism for example? If so, then why call it "magic"? Why not group it under phenomena that can be scientifically investigated? If I secretly palm a magnet to make a piece of iron seem to hover in mid-air and claim I have powers I do not, then I'm not really doing "magic", I'm deceiving others into thinking I have some kind of ability that I do not in truth have without the use of things with perfectly explainable physical properties. that's what many would call evil and what I would call deceitful and I think you're better off not associating with such people who would seek to misrepresent the truth in order to give themselves a psychological advantage over you. But it's obviously your choice what or who to believe.

It's true that the term magic has been debased by charlatans, but that is not the fault of magic. There are also, for example, a lot of fake medical practitioners around, especially in former times. Should we therefore reject medicine?

What leads you to believe that there is "magic" happening in the world? What would be an example of a 'magical' phenomenon?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:33 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:14 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:11 pm

You are clearly a hopeless case and are no more interested in genuine debate than a creationist.

I'm not the one being dogmatic.

Yes, you are.

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:36 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:30 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:00 pm

It's true that the term magic has been debased by charlatans, but that is not the fault of magic. There are also, for example, a lot of fake medical practitioners around, especially in former times. Should we therefore reject medicine?

What leads you to believe that there is "magic" happening in the world? What would be an example of a 'magical' phenomenon?

Energy healing, for example.

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:37 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:33 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:14 pm

I'm not the one being dogmatic.

Yes, you are.

And you aren't?

I'm simply exploring possibilities.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:37 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:36 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:30 pm

What leads you to believe that there is "magic" happening in the world? What would be an example of a 'magical' phenomenon?

Energy healing, for example.

What is an example of "energy healing"? If you have a sore muscle and I put a heating pad on it and it goes away, would that be an example of "energy healing"?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:39 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:37 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:33 pm

Yes, you are.

And you aren't?

I'm simply exploring possibilities.

What 'dogma'? Facts, science, evidence, reason, logic, criticial thinking...? So if I said 'ooh, yes, it's all 'magic' ' then that would be 'undogmatic'?

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:40 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:37 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:36 pm

Energy healing, for example.

What is an example of "energy healing"? If you have a sore muscle and I put a heating pad on it and it goes away, would that be an example of "energy healing"?

I was thinking more in terms of earth energy, as manifested at ancient sacred sites.

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:41 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:39 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:37 pm

And you aren't?

I'm simply exploring possibilities.

What 'dogma'? Facts, science, evidence, reason, logic, criticial thinking...? So if I said 'ooh, yes, it's all 'magic' ' then that would be 'undogmatic'?

You seem to have a closed mind.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:47 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:40 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:37 pm

What is an example of "energy healing"? If you have a sore muscle and I put a heating pad on it and it goes away, would that be an example of "energy healing"?

I was thinking more in terms of earth energy, as manifested at ancient sacred sites.

What about ancient mythology? There's a lot written down from various cultures concerning mythic animals and whatnot. Do you believe in unicorns (just for example)?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:48 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:41 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:39 pm

What 'dogma'? Facts, science, evidence, reason, logic, criticial thinking...? So if I said 'ooh, yes, it's all 'magic' ' then that would be 'undogmatic'?

You seem to have a closed mind.

Because I don't believe in fairies? You've been given explanations but refuse to even bother countering them and have provided nothing that resembles a reasoned argument anywhere, yet 'I'm' closed minded??

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:51 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:47 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:40 pm

I was thinking more in terms of earth energy, as manifested at ancient sacred sites.

What about ancient mythology? There's a lot written down from various cultures concerning mythic animals and whatnot. Do you believe in unicorns (just for example)?

While I have no reason to believe in unicorns, what I will say is that most myths have a basis in reality. The interesting thing is finding out what.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:20 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:51 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:47 pm

What about ancient mythology? There's a lot written down from various cultures concerning mythic animals and whatnot. Do you believe in unicorns (just for example)?

While I have no reason to believe in unicorns, what I will say is that most myths have a basis in reality. The interesting thing is finding out what.

Sure a unicorn could be a literary device, just the same as political cartoons have used certain animals to depict people with various characteristics. (for example, a stubborn person might be depicted as a donkey, a sexually promiscuous male might be portrayed as a dog, someone who was greedy or ate a lot might be portrayed as a pig). If a unicorn were a literary device used to depict some real person, type of person, emotion, phenomenon or some such thing in ancient times, then that's understandable. I mean, it's a little vague to say that you believe in "magic". It's maybe like saying, "I believe in Greek mythology." What does that mean? Does that mean you literally pay homage to Zeus and Athena? Burn sacrifices with the sincere hope that Zeus or Athena will favor you with some sort of blessing? Make pilgrimages to Mount Olympus in hopes of meeting them?

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:27 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:20 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:51 pm

While I have no reason to believe in unicorns, what I will say is that most myths have a basis in reality. The interesting thing is finding out what.

Sure a unicorn could be a literary device, just the same as political cartoons have used certain animals to depict people with various characteristics. (for example, a stubborn person might be depicted as a donkey, a sexually promiscuous male might be portrayed as a dog, someone who was greedy or ate a lot might be portrayed as a pig). If a unicorn were a literary device used to depict some real person, type of person, emotion, phenomenon or some such thing in ancient times, then that's understandable. I mean, it's a little vague to say that you believe in "magic". It's maybe like saying, "I believe in Greek mythology." What does that mean? Does that mean you literally pay homage to Zeus and Athena? Burn sacrifices with the sincere hope that Zeus or Athena will favor you with some sort of blessing? Make pilgrimages to Mount Olympus in hopes of meeting them?

Unicorns, and many other mythological creatures, turn up in many different and widely separated mythologies. I don't think they were just literary devices, but what they were, I have no idea.

I pay homage to the earth goddess in my Pagan practice.

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:27 pm I pay homage to the earth goddess in my Pagan practice.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:29 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:27 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:20 pm

Sure a unicorn could be a literary device, just the same as political cartoons have used certain animals to depict people with various characteristics. (for example, a stubborn person might be depicted as a donkey, a sexually promiscuous male might be portrayed as a dog, someone who was greedy or ate a lot might be portrayed as a pig). If a unicorn were a literary device used to depict some real person, type of person, emotion, phenomenon or some such thing in ancient times, then that's understandable. I mean, it's a little vague to say that you believe in "magic". It's maybe like saying, "I believe in Greek mythology." What does that mean? Does that mean you literally pay homage to Zeus and Athena? Burn sacrifices with the sincere hope that Zeus or Athena will favor you with some sort of blessing? Make pilgrimages to Mount Olympus in hopes of meeting them?

Unicorns, and many other mythological creatures, turn up in many different and widely separated mythologies. I don't think they were just literary devices, but what they were, I have no idea.

I pay homage to the earth goddess in my Pagan practice.

Why don't you think they were literary devices? If they aren't then what else could they be?