Philosophy Now Forum

If your beloved should lose a leg *
Do you love her less?
No.

Two legs is not a condition of your love.
Therefore, you love her unconditionally.

That’s Unconditional Love.

Your conditioning cannot steal that meaning from Unconditional Love,
and say it's evidence of Romantic Love.

That’s right.



* Or foot, or hand, or arm, or organ, or mind, or what she once was.

Perhaps a horror of self-realization
Is reserved for those
Who realize that they cannot love unconditionally
Who can only love a past memory
When that memory was formed under duress of delusion

Such a horror of realizing that conditions upon which love was founded, were in fact not only delusional but maybe even a lie foisted upon the horrified's younger, more naive self, could be enough to send a man off on a rampage at Disney World ... which has probably happened to some hard-working fella after seeing what amounts to his life-force of blood, sweat and tears to earn money, being sacrificed for a week of unappreciated Mickey Mouse entertainment.

I would image ...

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:51 am

DPMartin wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:19 pm for once i agree with you, especially on unconditional love. that is a hox from the get go ...

If you look more closely, you’ll see that you’re the unwitting victim of doublethink.
You in fact, are the victim of a hoax and deep down, you know it.
This is why you project upon unconditional love, what has been hoaxed on you.

Here’s the facts.

Romantic love is the scam.
Romantic Love is intertwined with commercialism.
Romantic Love is the prize, for the conditioned.

The Cinderella wedding is but the beginning.
Spending is the proof of love.

If you’re a man, don’t you dare forget Valentine’s Day.
Spending is proof of love.

Diamonds are so expensive because of Romantic Love.
Spending big is proof of Big Love.

For metaphorphiles, spending is sacrifice.

Sacrificing the down payment on a home, because of the big wedding, to prove love.
So conditioned to think Romantic Love is the big deal, because that's where the profit is, for those who have conditioned you.

Romantic Love is commercialized.
Unconditional love, is love that has not been commercialized.
Unconditioned love has not been conditioned, by the insane logic of commercialization.

That's a fact, Jack.

Big weddings have nothing to do with romance. Icky, nasty, Valentine's day has nothing to do with romance. Those are just superficial garbage that only demonstrate the shallowness and lack of grey matter of the woman and how much the man wants to have sex with her.
What sort of an idiot would rather have a big, embarrassing, stressful wedding than a home?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:10 am Big weddings have nothing to do with romance. Icky, nasty, Valentine's day has nothing to do with romance. Those are just superficial garbage that only demonstrate the shallowness and lack of grey matter of the woman and how much the man wants to have sex with her.
What sort of an idiot would rather have a big, embarrassing, stressful wedding than a home?

This is why men ask directions from men, and not women.

Valentine's Day only exists as a spending holiday because of Romance.
Big Weddings only exist as a spending obligation because of Romance.

Without Romance, these industries would not exist.

However, they do exist, regardless* of your personal feelings about Romance.



* Irregardless ?

Guy says to a gal, “I didn’t get you anything for Valentine’s Day, or our engagement anniversary (or whatever), because you have something better.”

He says, “Instead of all that, you have my love.”
He would have to be one silver-tongued fellow indeed.

That could be the joke of the week, because, her satisfaction and happiness is for her to say, not him.

Such is the nature of Romantic Love, for both the conditioned and the unconditioned lovers.

For the unconditioned, recognizing the conditions of the beloved's happiness as being more important than his own judgments about how the other should be, is an aspect of unconditional love, that her happiness need not meet with his approval, or standards.

Valentine's Day is for the little girl in the woman, who likes presents, and the romantic loves to please her in that way.

In turn, she considers how he likes to be pleased ... which usually doesn't cost much, seeing as women are so frugal and all.

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:18 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:10 am Big weddings have nothing to do with romance. Icky, nasty, Valentine's day has nothing to do with romance. Those are just superficial garbage that only demonstrate the shallowness and lack of grey matter of the woman and how much the man wants to have sex with her.
What sort of an idiot would rather have a big, embarrassing, stressful wedding than a home?

This is why men ask directions from men, and not women.

Valentine's Day only exists as a spending holiday because of Romance.
Big Weddings only exist as a spending obligation because of Romance.

Without Romance, these industries would not exist.

However, they do exist, regardless* of your personal feelings about Romance.



* Irregardless ?

You are an idiot. You obviously have as little understanding of what I write as everyone has of the gibberish you write.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:40 pm
You are an idiot. You obviously have as little understanding of what I write as everyone has of the gibberish you write.

Don’t be mean, keep it clean. I do admit that at times I take logic, reasonableness, and common sense beyond the boundardies and limitations of happy happy joy joy.

What you're saying is, what kind man would love such a woman?

You'd be surprised. In fact, the most seductive women are often, shall we say, a bit off balance.

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:51 am

DPMartin wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:19 pm for once i agree with you, especially on unconditional love. that is a hox from the get go ...

If you look more closely, you’ll see that you’re the unwitting victim of doublethink.
You in fact, are the victim of a hoax and deep down, you know it.
This is why you project upon unconditional love, what has been hoaxed on you.

Here’s the facts.

Romantic love is the scam.
Romantic Love is intertwined with commercialism.
Romantic Love is the prize, for the conditioned.

The Cinderella wedding is but the beginning.
Spending is the proof of love.

If you’re a man, don’t you dare forget Valentine’s Day.
Spending is proof of love.

Diamonds are so expensive because of Romantic Love.
Spending big is proof of Big Love.

For metaphorphiles, spending is sacrifice.

Sacrificing the down payment on a home, because of the big wedding, to prove love.
So conditioned to think Romantic Love is the big deal, because that's where the profit is, for those who have conditioned you.

Romantic Love is commercialized.
Unconditional love, is love that has not been commercialized.
Unconditioned love has not been conditioned, by the insane logic of commercialization.

That's a fact, Jack.

don't get your panties in a wad
romance is what it is for those who experience it.

love is another matter

just because you don't get it or experience it doesn't mean it don't exist. and your bitterness over commercialism trying to capitalize on such things is miss guided. its paying someone's bills. no matter what one thinks of Christmas or other holidays in a free economy, it helps to keep people working. no one's putting a gun to your head and making you buy anything.


there's no such thing as unconditional love. all relationships are conditional. there are even those who think dogs have an unconditional love for their masters. nope; don't feed and water and shelter the dog and see if he goes elsewhere when given the opportunity. and humans always require conditions for every transaction and relationship, even if its a mutual understanding to not kill each other. from two killers in a prison cell to two or more nations with overlapping interests.

DPMartin wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:19 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:50 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:32 am Is there such a thing as romantic love? I see people on dating apps looking for partners and beautiful folk meeting and socializing at bars with each other. It all seems so alien and distant from where I'm at.

I always find the question revealing.

My wife and I were bikers for years. We both rode big Harleys and were frequetly asked why we enjoyed it so much.

"HOG," riders have a saying about the freedom and exhiliration of bike riding others' question. "If you have to ask, you cannot understand."

My wife and I have enjoyed romantic love for many years. For those who know it, there really is not much else in this world that makes life worth living. It is certainly not for everyone and most will probably never find it, but then most people don't find much of value in their lives. But if you have to ask, you cannot understand.

So my answer to your question is, of course there is romantic love, but it's something you do and earn and must be worthy of. It's not something that, "happens," to you, and it is extremely costly and very few are able or willing to pay the price of the most valuable jewel available in this world--the bliss of romantic love.

When someone loves another it is a recognition and appreciation of that other as the most important and valuable person in their life without whom life would not be worth living. There is hardly a more vile or disgusting idea than, "unconditional love," which is like saying, "there is nothing about you worth loving and that's why I love you." It would be better to be hated than loved unconditionally which makes one no more valueable than a piece of trash or refuse.

for once i agree with you, especially on unconditional love. that is a hox from the get go, even the God mentioned in the bible requires an agreement between Him and those He has an relationship with (of course most of so called christianity don't get that). a relationship of any kind between humans is a trusted agreement which is honored every day in a shared experience such a life or riding your HD building a life a home a business so on and so forth. could be friends spouses anyone you have a transaction with. but romance, women require to be treated a certain way to know what you think of them which effects in most cases how they feel about you and themselves. that they are valued.

flowers give by a suiter or a spouse or a son to his mother can show how that works.

Yes, and thank you!

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:49 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:40 pm
You are an idiot. You obviously have as little understanding of what I write as everyone has of the gibberish you write.

Don’t be mean, keep it clean. I do admit that at times I take logic, reasonableness, and common sense beyond the boundardies and limitations of happy happy joy joy.

What you're saying is, what kind man would love such a woman?

You'd be surprised. In fact, the most seductive women are often, shall we say, a bit off balance.

Correction: you take logic, reasonableness, and common sense beyond the boundardies of logic, reasonableness and common sense, beyond the boundaries of sanity in fact...

DPMartin wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:18 pm ...

Your contributions to refine Gary's question are helpful.

Women put conditions on love that the poor man cannot meet.
I posit that this is an element of Gary's argumentative thrust.

The only condition that a man puts on a woman, is that she love him unconditionally.

I'm surprised. Most men know this, and communicate it to women.

This is but further evidence that women just don't listen, but not evidence of any bitterness over women, or for commercialism, and should you wish to further project nasty rumours, "we'll put a stop to that right now" *.

It's the way things are.




* Barton Fink reference

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:57 pm
Correction: you take logic, reasonableness, and common sense beyond the boundardies of logic, reasonableness and common sense, beyond the boundaries of sanity in fact...

Well there you go.

A woman's logic is nothing more than unsupported opinion.

DPMartin wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:18 pm love is another matter

there's no such thing as unconditional love. all relationships are conditional. there are even those who think dogs have an unconditional love for their masters. nope; don't feed and water and shelter the dog and see if he goes elsewhere when given the opportunity. and humans always require conditions for every transaction and relationship, even if its a mutual understanding to not kill each other. from two killers in a prison cell to two or more nations with overlapping interests.

“its paying someone's bills. no matter what one thinks of Christmas or other holidays in a free economy, it helps to keep people working. no one's putting a gun to your head and making you buy anything.”

Yeah yeah, sure sure, for what it’s worth, but it goes much deeper.

There’s a more basic principle involved, one that speaks to the Gist of Gary’s OP.

The principle underlies the following situation.

Tiger Woods had some growing up to do. Sure. What young man worth hundreds of millions of dollars, doesn’t.
Oh, the bother of youth and ignorance.
- However, does he receive unconditional love when at his lowest, which is all he wants of Mrs. Tiger?
- That is all he wanted from her, btw.
- He can buy anything else.

No, he didn't receive that unconditional love.
You think he would, at least as an expression of love, for going to the trouble to bestow a paradise of consumerism upon one with the demonstrated talents of the nanny profession, and whatever personal attraction she inspired.

No, for that he gets to fork over vast sums of cash and support some slacker she will hook up with.*

What is this strange principle of relationship to which modern man agrees?

It's nothing other than ... the man is always wrong, and society says he gets to pay for that opportunity.**



* Shirley, to avoid wadded panties and the consequences if kicked to the corner and forgotten for any length of time, yes, some of that cash was likely in fungibles. That's likely the color of Mrs. Tiger's panties, not to be disrespectful of Romantic Love, or anything.


** Never been divorced, for those who see no further than the nosy nose extends.***


*** Think thee that such expressions cause less than comprehension, perhaps mean and nasty responses, due to form?

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:36 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:57 pm
Correction: you take logic, reasonableness, and common sense beyond the boundardies of logic, reasonableness and common sense, beyond the boundaries of sanity in fact...

Well there you go.

A woman's logic is nothing more than unsupported opinion.

There is no such thing as 'woman's logic'. Logic is logic.

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:30 pm

This is but further evidence that women just don't listen, but not evidence of any bitterness over women, or for commercialism, and should you wish to further project nasty rumours, "we'll put a stop to that right now" *.

is this some kind of threat?