Philosophy Now Forum

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:00 pm in san diego, mebbe, but not everywhere

Alask 96.0%
Arizona 94.1%
Arkansas 96.4%
California 98.6%
Connecticut %99.9%
Delaware 99.0%
District of Columbia 98.7%
Idaho 98.8%
Indiana 98.9%
Maine 98.7%
Massachusetts 99.0%
Michigan 98.4%
Montana 96.8%
Nebraska 99.6%
New Jersey 99.8%
New Mexico 98.9%
Oklahoma 99.2%
Oregon 98.1%
Rhode Island 98.3%
Tennessee 99.7%
Utah 96.8%
Vermont 98.4%
Virginia 99.3%
Washington 98.0%

Source: John Hopkins University data

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:00 pm never said they didn't

You never said they did either.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:00 pm don't care

Why do you even bother saying stuff if nobody believes you?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:31 pmAlask 96.0%...Washington 98.0%

Source: John Hopkins University data

What?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:36 pmWhy do you even bother saying stuff if nobody believes you?

Why do you?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:41 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:31 pmAlask 96.0%...Washington 98.0%

Source: John Hopkins University data

What?

What what?

https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid- ... he-states/

Data from: https://github.com/govex/COVID-19 ( which is maintained by http://civicimpact.jhu.edu/ )

uwot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:21 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:39 pm You walked into it, you silly wanker. Go on then; what do I accept?

No, you did, bub. If you've locked down, if you wear a mask, if you've been jabbed: you've accepted the wolf (Coronapocalypse) you've told about as bein' real. You trust the shepherds. let you in on a little secret: the shepherds are the wolves

I'll let you into a little secret: one of my daughters works in an intensive care unit which, for a while, was overwhelmed with people suffering precisely the symptoms associated with the disease you believe is a conspiracy. For you to persuade me of your version of reality, you need to convince me either that the people in the ICU are actors, good enough to fool my daughter, or that my daughter is part of a massive conspiracy and is lying to me. Go for it!

uwot, me old bean, one would think that after your recent episode of endlessly banging your head against the wall in trying to reason with Age/ken in the "A World Without Men" thread, that you would be reluctant to engage in yet another exercise in futility against an equally unreasonable opponent.

Oh well, I suppose there's some value in the readers being able to see the stark contrast between rational thinking and irrational thinking.

And in regards to this thread, as I have suggested in other threads, what we see happening with the devolving mentality of the American populace is no doubt (at least in my mind) the result of the necrotizing karma that its ("look the other way") citizenry are reaping from the treachery their leaders have sown across the planet.

Unfortunately, it's only going to get worse, so brace yourselves.

In the meantime, in regards to the American anti-vaxers, maga-hatters (Trumpists), and conspiracy nuts that you are being subjected to on this "philosophy" forum,...

...I blame it on the fact that even though it is generally a "good" thing (for all of us nuts) that the forum is lightly moderated, nevertheless, the good is offset by the toleration of those who would have been sent packing long ago under a stricter regime of moderators.
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henry wrote:

If you've locked down, you've accepted the wolf (Coronapocalypse)

Henry has accepted the wolf.

He’s locked himself down confined to his own local county….he will not be able to board a plane ever again…oh well, I hope you enjoy your locked down life, I hope you get some company to keep your spirits up, maybe little miss red riding hood, will pay you a quick visit.

seeds wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:57 pm In the meantime, in regards to the American anti-vaxers, maga-hatters (Trumpists), and conspiracy nuts that you are being subjected to on this "philosophy" forum,...

...I blame it on the fact that even though it is generally a "good" thing (for all of us nuts) that the forum is lightly moderated, nevertheless, the good is offset by the toleration of those who would have been sent packing long ago under a stricter regime of moderators.
_______

This site offers an invaluable service, daycare for a global constituency of crackpots.

There's a pub near me that my mates and I used to drink in when we were students or otherwise unable to afford nicer surroundings. Every Tuesday and Thursday afternoon these same 4 or 5 old guys would turn up at about the same time, each grab two pints then sit nowhere near each other, and all of them put one of the pints on the other side of the table where somebody imaginary might be assumed to be joining them. And that's it, they sat and each of them talked to himself until it was time to switch the empty pint for the full one. Those guys were on day some sort of day release from the local loony bin. The PN forum is really just The Victoria, but a digital edition where you can't smell the nasty carpet or the antique plumbing.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:47 pm https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid- ... he-states/

Data from: https://github.com/govex/COVID-19 ( which is maintained by http://civicimpact.jhu.edu/ )

-----

Excerpts from the first link...

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) currently monitors hospitalizations and deaths, from any cause, among fully vaccinated individuals with COVID-19, but not breakthrough infections, which it stopped monitoring as of May 1. CDC presents this data in aggregate at the national level but not by state, and there is no single, public repository for data by state or data on breakthrough infections, since the CDC stopped monitoring them.

Yep.

Half of states (25) report some data on COVID-19 breakthrough events

Yep.

Fifteen of these states regularly update these data, often on a weekly basis

Here's what you got: the CDC, as I say up-thread, isn't trackin' breakthroughs, only half of the 50 states track breakthroughs and only 15 of the 25 that do track these things do so with detail.

Excerpt from the San Diego link, up-thread...

Data for recent cases, hospitalizations, and deaths may not be complete. Cases with recent infection or onset dates may not yet be reported and vaccination data for recently reported cases may be incomplete. Hospitalizations and deaths from the last 14 days may not yet be reported.

This is a disclaimer or caveat that appears on all such info-graphs. It means all the numbers presented are tentative, a mere snapshot that tells you nuthin' about collected data that hasn't been incorporated into the formal accountings.

Sum of it: as I say elsewhere...

There are no accurate numbers for how many have been vaccinated, how many have experienced beer virus infection despite bein' vaccinated, how many have been hospitalized (from beer virus or vaccination) despite bein' vaccinated, and how many have died (from beer virus or vaccination) despite bein' vaccinated.

Now, Israel has made some real effort to track such things, especially when it comes to breakthroughs. The results aren't encouragin'. Any number of sources are available on-line. Be aware: different folks, all reputable, are offerin' different explanations as to why there are so many breakthroughs in highly-vaccinated Israel.

More broadly, as I say elsewhere...

There are no accurate accountings of how many have been infected with beer virus, how many have been hospitalized becuz of beer virus, how many have died becuz of beer virus, and how many have recovered from beer virus.

The clam that such numbers are accurate and confirmed is strange: globally, nationally, regionally, flu infections, hospitalizations, deaths, and recoveries (and vaccinations) have been tracked for years. All that's ever offered from such tracking are estimates. The same methods and bureaucratic machinery used to track beer virus is and has been used to track the flu and yet we're given confirmed numbers for one and estimates for the other.

I could go on (here, or in the other thread) but...

Most of you are uninterested or downright hostile to the idea your government, and associated entities, might not have your best interest in mind.

...and...

As I say: early on I offered links as evidence and these were ignored or actively dismissed (by folks who readily admitted they never actually accessed the links).

So: I'll just go back to postin' lil memes and odd essays and specific data and leave you all to be curious and go on your own hunts or be dismissive and write me off.

I wrote: So: I'll just go back to postin' lil memes and odd essays and specific data and leave you all to be curious and go on your own hunts or be dismissive and write me off.

Apparently I won't.

This thread...

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=29191&p=525564#p525564

...is locked. No warning issued.

Okay.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:27 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:57 pm In the meantime, in regards to the American anti-vaxers, maga-hatters (Trumpists), and conspiracy nuts that you are being subjected to on this "philosophy" forum,...

...I blame it on the fact that even though it is generally a "good" thing (for all of us nuts) that the forum is lightly moderated, nevertheless, the good is offset by the toleration of those who would have been sent packing long ago under a stricter regime of moderators.
_______

This site offers an invaluable service, daycare for a global constituency of crackpots.

Ha, good one, Flash, and true too (and it comes with the self-reflective realization that I am no doubt one of the crackpots).
_______

The problem with cracked-pots is their futile frantic scurrying attempts to repair the breach.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:49 am Sum of it: as I say elsewhere...

There are no accurate numbers...

That is the usual response from a conspiracy nut who doesn't know how to propagate uncertainty.

How accurate is accurate enough for you? Define your tolerance in statistical terms.

seeds wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:57 pmuwot, me old bean, one would think that after your recent episode of endlessly banging your head against the wall in trying to reason with Age/ken in the "A World Without Men" thread, that you would be reluctant to engage in yet another exercise in futility against an equally unreasonable opponent.

Well, I may just be a glutton for punishment, but in the context of this thread henry quirk is precisely the sort of conspiracy nut who is immersed in his role, so much so he has to write with an accent.

seeds wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:57 pmOh well, I suppose there's some value in the readers being able to see the stark contrast between rational thinking and irrational thinking.

It's not so much that anyone here is irrational. The thing with conspiracy theories is that they are invariably unfalsifiable - there is always a reason for the counterfactuals, and that has to be rational, at least in the context of the conspiracy theory. It's the difference between valid and sound again, and the ease with which people will accept a valid/rational narrative as true.

seeds wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:57 pmAnd in regards to this thread, as I have suggested in other threads, what we see happening with the devolving mentality of the American populace is no doubt (at least in my mind) the result of the necrotizing karma that its ("look the other way") citizenry are reaping from the treachery their leaders have sown across the planet.

I think the irony is that some sections of the population have been emboldened by relativism, taking it to mean that their beliefs are as good as any; but instead of seeing it as just a small area in a vast cerebral landscape, they cannot cope with the reality that their cherished fruitloopery may not be true. It's kinda 'Ooh, thanks very much relativism, now fuck off.'

seeds wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:57 pmUnfortunately, it's only going to get worse, so brace yourselves.

There have always been nutters, it's the internet that's new.

seeds wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:57 pmIn the meantime, in regards to the American anti-vaxers, maga-hatters (Trumpists), and conspiracy nuts that you are being subjected to on this "philosophy" forum,...

...I blame it on the fact that even though it is generally a "good" thing (for all of us nuts) that the forum is lightly moderated, nevertheless, the good is offset by the toleration of those who would have been sent packing long ago under a stricter regime of moderators.
_______

The ways of the moderators are all powerful and mysterious. Just ask henry quirk.

There are two types of conspiracy
1) A cabal of people gathered together in secret to conspire and a plot specific things, or to surpress certain things.
2) A tacit conspiracy in which large numbers of people unconsciously conspire to promote certian ways of thinking, to advantage certain ways of life, and to ignore viewpoints that fly against their own interests and points of view.

Most conspiracy theorists recognise the consequences of (2), but thing that they are the result of (1).

I'll give you an example.

People who play the stock market pretend to beleive that they are doing the economy some good when the truth is that there is no more damaging effect that people take money out of the economy for doing no work. People who play the stock market, although they know they are gambling to screw money out of the system by doing no work, also castigate the poor for drawing social security. They also castigate the poor for gambling.

This is clearly a type 2 conspiracy where the conspirators fool themselves that their course of action is good. They conspire to vote for people who peddle the same falsehoods.

The conspiracy nut will tend to focus on groups such as the "Jews" or the "Illuminati" for conspiring to impoverish the people to their own advantage.
Such conspiracies are easy to refute, and criticise on the grounds of racism, classism or lack of evidence.

People conspiring in this type 2 conspiracy will deflect criticism of their actions by accusing its critics of a type 1 conspiracy, calling them antisemitic, or stupid.

The real danger in society is the huge range of type 2 conspiracies that we call contribute to.