Philosophy Now Forum

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:02 pmNothing contained within beliefs are necessarily true. In fact in most cases the words "believe" and "belief" most commonly tend to be applied to POVs about which no rational or evidential basis is applied.
Belief is, then, generally a choice, or (would the believer accept it) nothing more than an aspiration that such a thing ought to be true.

More or less my point. I think anyone who has actually studied philosophy knows this and understands the implication that if someone chooses to believe something it is because they like the idea.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:28 pm More or less my point. I think anyone who has actually studied philosophy knows this and understands the implication that if someone chooses to believe something it is because they like the idea.

So why do you like the idea of "beliefs"?

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:21 pm For all I know it's turtles all the way down

It absolutely is turtles all the way down.

Did any philosopher ever ponder what those turtles signify?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:29 pmSo why do you like the idea of "beliefs"?

Like them or not, some things are just facts.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:35 pm Like them or not, some things are just facts.

Why do you like facts?

is it just aesthetics or is there more to it?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:32 pmDid any philosopher ever ponder what those turtles signify?

You'd have to ask them.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:36 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:32 pmDid any philosopher ever ponder what those turtles signify?

You'd have to ask them.

I am asking you who they are. Since you know who said what.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:35 pmWhy do you like facts?

is it just aesthetics or is there more to it?

I think we are coming full circle. Facts are only facts within a particular metaphysical narrative. People choose their own metaphysics and deal with the facts as they appear in that context, or they change their metaphysics to one in which the facts they don't like disappear. You for instance could invent some version of reality in which you are not a total dick.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:46 pm I think we are coming full circle.

It's not a circle, it's the turtles.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:46 pm Facts are only facts within a particular metaphysical narrative. People choose their own metaphysics and deal with the facts as they appear in that context, or they change their metaphysics to one in which the facts they don't like disappear.

And none of this tells me why you like facts, metaphysics, narratives etc.

Is it for aesthetic reasons, or is there more to it?

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:46 pm You for instance could invent some version of reality in which you are not a total dick.

And you could invent some version of reality in which you are charitable. We make our choices...

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:39 pm

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:36 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:32 pmDid any philosopher ever ponder what those turtles signify?

You'd have to ask them.

I am asking you who they are. Since you know who said what.

All I know is that the story has been attributed to several people, among them Bertrand Russell. If you're asking me, I think the turtles are a pretty good metaphor for any conversation that involves you.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:51 pm All I know is that the story has been attributed to several people, among them Bertrand Russell. If you're asking me, I think the turtles are a pretty good metaphor for any conversation that involves you.

That would be an astute observation. I like turtles. Especially if they go all the way down.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:49 pmAnd none of this tells me why you like facts, metaphysics, narratives etc.

Is it for aesthetic reasons, or is there more to it?

That is all there is to it.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:53 pm That is all there is to it.

Great.

So do you don't use any of your beliefs for anything other than aesthetic intellectual masturbation?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:58 pm

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:53 pm That is all there is to it.

Great.

So do you don't use any of your beliefs for anything other than aesthetic intellectual masturbation?

That is one possibility, it's basically what Plato advocated, but I prefer to think there is an external, material world and that some beliefs are necessary for navigating it.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:04 pm That is one possibility, it's basically what Plato advocated, but I prefer to think there is an external, material world and that some beliefs are necessary for navigating it.

Do you think navigating life is merely an aesthetic pursuit, or is there more to it?

Lets see if "asthetics" is being Held true come what may