Philosophy Now Forum

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:49 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:40 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:38 am

Well OBVIOUSLY NON of that decision was independent of ANY bias, as you just got through EXPLAINING that 'that' decision was WRONG in relation to WHERE you WANTED TO GO, which is OBVIOUSLY 'a bias' in and of its OWN self.

You appear now to NOT have ANY REAL clue as to what a 'free decision' ACTUALLY IS.

Of course that was a free decision. How couldn't it be free when I didn't know which way to take?

BECAUSE that decision was BIASED on WHERE 'you' WANTED TO GO. Which was, PREDETERMINED from YOUR previous experiences.

Of course that is not a correct understanding. I have never been on that trail before.

Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:57 am Freedom means without constraint. Literally everything we can measure is a settled fact about the universe which acts as a constraint on our freedom. The only even apparent freedom we have is in the fact that we haven't measured everything around us. If we know just what everything is, we'd know just how it was going to act from a given input, including our inner parts. The fact that the universe is infinite and our brains not so much means that we will always have room via ignorance to FEEL free, but every time a measurement is taken, anywhere in the universe, the factual evidence that we are NOT FREE increases.

You are talking about freedom of will which is the ability to do anything without constraint. We are talking about free will that is the ability to decide without any constraint in a situation with at least two possible options.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:25 am
It didn't take me to the destination I wanted.

So, that decision was NOT 'wrong' in and of itself. It was ONLY 'wrong' in relation to WHERE 'you' wanted to go, correct?

I am not talking about right or wrong.

BUT it was 'YOU', "bahman", who said that that was the WRONG trail. No one else mentioned WRONG before YOU DID.

I just asked you;
So, have you made "free" decisions in the past?

If yes, then what were they?

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am I am talking about a free decision. I couldn't be influenced by any trail.

Do you REALLY get this LOST and CONFUSED in these discussions, or do you just PRETEND you do, so to use "YOUR CONFUSION" as diversionary tactics when you are TOTALLY STUCK in NOT being able to back up and support your OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS here?

I KNOW you WERE talking about a 'free decision'. That WAS until you made the CLAIM that it was a WRONG DECISION.

I KNOW you ALSO can NOT be influenced by ANY trail. BUT, 'you' were the ONE who brought up the WRONGNESS here.

I just POINTED OUT and PROVED that YOUR, alleged, "free decision" was NOT an ACTUAL 'free decision' AT ALL BECAUSE 'that decision' was BIASED/INFLUENCED upon and by your past experiences.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am Now, considering that 'you' do NOT YET EVEN KNOW who NOR what 'you' ARE,

Off-topic.

NOT when we get down to the VERY FINE and NECESSARY DETAILS of this topic and discussion.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am then that decision was ONLY 'wrong' for some COMPLETELY INSIGNIFICANT destination ONLY at that particular AGAIN INSIGNIFICANT TINY MOMENT.

But that decision has a significant impact on my trip.

ONLY to 'you'.

But, this still ONLY goes to SHOW and PROVE that 'that decision' was NOT as 'free' as you think and BELIEVE it was.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am Also, this is just DIVERTING AWAY from the issue, WHICH WAS, 'free decision' and WHAT a 'free decision' Truly IS.

Free decision is a decision that is not biased by options in a situation.

And, YOUR decision to take 'that trail' was OBVIOUSLY BIASED by OPTIONS.

One of those OPTIONS WAS: WHERE you WANTED to go.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:13 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:49 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:40 am
Of course that was a free decision. How couldn't it be free when I didn't know which way to take?

BECAUSE that decision was BIASED on WHERE 'you' WANTED TO GO. Which was, PREDETERMINED from YOUR previous experiences.

Of course that is not a correct understanding. I have never been on that trail before.

So what?

You made YOUR DECISION based on WHERE you WANTED to go, correct?

If that is correct, then YOUR DECISION was BIASED upon some 'thing'.

AND, it was YOU who stated:
Free in here means independent of any bias.

So, when you CHOSE 'that trail' were you actually completely and utterly independent (or free) of ANY bias?

Your Honest answers, once again, would be much appreciated.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:15 am

Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:57 am Freedom means without constraint. Literally everything we can measure is a settled fact about the universe which acts as a constraint on our freedom. The only even apparent freedom we have is in the fact that we haven't measured everything around us. If we know just what everything is, we'd know just how it was going to act from a given input, including our inner parts. The fact that the universe is infinite and our brains not so much means that we will always have room via ignorance to FEEL free, but every time a measurement is taken, anywhere in the universe, the factual evidence that we are NOT FREE increases.

You are talking about freedom of will which is the ability to do anything without constraint. We are talking about free will that is the ability to decide without any constraint in a situation with at least two possible options.

When 'you', "bahman", say 'we' here, who EXACTLY are 'you' referring to?

Because, to me, 'we' are NOT talking about 'free will' in the way you say 'we' ARE.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am
So, that decision was NOT 'wrong' in and of itself. It was ONLY 'wrong' in relation to WHERE 'you' wanted to go, correct?

I am not talking about right or wrong.

BUT it was 'YOU', "bahman", who said that that was the WRONG trail. No one else mentioned WRONG before YOU DID.

I just asked you;
So, have you made "free" decisions in the past?

If yes, then what were they?

To be more clear I am not talking about right or wrong decisions.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am I am talking about a free decision. I couldn't be influenced by any trail.

Do you REALLY get this LOST and CONFUSED in these discussions, or do you just PRETEND you do, so to use "YOUR CONFUSION" as diversionary tactics when you are TOTALLY STUCK in NOT being able to back up and support your OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS here?

I KNOW you WERE talking about a 'free decision'. That WAS until you made the CLAIM that it was a WRONG DECISION.

I KNOW you ALSO can NOT be influenced by ANY trail. BUT, 'you' were the ONE who brought up the WRONGNESS here.

I just POINTED OUT and PROVED that YOUR, alleged, "free decision" was NOT an ACTUAL 'free decision' AT ALL BECAUSE 'that decision' was BIASED/INFLUENCED upon and by your past experiences.

What past experience? Since I am not aware of any experience that could affect my decision in a place that I don't know.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am Now, considering that 'you' do NOT YET EVEN KNOW who NOR what 'you' ARE,

Off-topic.

NOT when we get down to the VERY FINE and NECESSARY DETAILS of this topic and discussion.

Off-topic again.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am then that decision was ONLY 'wrong' for some COMPLETELY INSIGNIFICANT destination ONLY at that particular AGAIN INSIGNIFICANT TINY MOMENT.

But that decision has a significant impact on my trip.

ONLY to 'you'.

But, this still ONLY goes to SHOW and PROVE that 'that decision' was NOT as 'free' as you think and BELIEVE it was.

Of course, it was a free decision.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am Also, this is just DIVERTING AWAY from the issue, WHICH WAS, 'free decision' and WHAT a 'free decision' Truly IS.

Free decision is a decision that is not biased by options in a situation.

And, YOUR decision to take 'that trail' was OBVIOUSLY BIASED by OPTIONS.

One of those OPTIONS WAS: WHERE you WANTED to go.

You obviously don't understand what I am talking about. I suggest you contemplate my situation in order to understand that you cannot be biased by any option when the outcomes of options are not known.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:13 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:49 am

BECAUSE that decision was BIASED on WHERE 'you' WANTED TO GO. Which was, PREDETERMINED from YOUR previous experiences.

Of course that is not a correct understanding. I have never been on that trail before.

So what?

You made YOUR DECISION based on WHERE you WANTED to go, correct?

Sure. But that is not the point. I simply couldn't know which way to get so my decision at the point of conflict could not be based on anything.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am If that is correct, then YOUR DECISION was BIASED upon some 'thing'.

My trip was biased by the fact that I wanted to reach the destination. I was not biased by anything in the point that I wanted to decide which way to get when I didn't know which way is correct.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am AND, it was YOU who stated:
Free in here means independent of any bias.

Yes.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am So, when you CHOSE 'that trail' were you actually completely and utterly independent (or free) of ANY bias?

I am not talking about that trail when I am talking about free decision. I am talking about the point that I did not know which way to get.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am Your Honest answers, once again, would be much appreciated.

I did my best.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:43 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:15 am

Advocate wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:57 am Freedom means without constraint. Literally everything we can measure is a settled fact about the universe which acts as a constraint on our freedom. The only even apparent freedom we have is in the fact that we haven't measured everything around us. If we know just what everything is, we'd know just how it was going to act from a given input, including our inner parts. The fact that the universe is infinite and our brains not so much means that we will always have room via ignorance to FEEL free, but every time a measurement is taken, anywhere in the universe, the factual evidence that we are NOT FREE increases.

You are talking about freedom of will which is the ability to do anything without constraint. We are talking about free will that is the ability to decide without any constraint in a situation with at least two possible options.

When 'you', "bahman", say 'we' here, who EXACTLY are 'you' referring to?

Because, to me, 'we' are NOT talking about 'free will' in the way you say 'we' ARE.

So what you are talking about?

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am
I am not talking about right or wrong.

BUT it was 'YOU', "bahman", who said that that was the WRONG trail. No one else mentioned WRONG before YOU DID.

I just asked you;
So, have you made "free" decisions in the past?

If yes, then what were they?

To be more clear I am not talking about right or wrong decisions.

If you are, supposedly and allegedly, NOT talking about right or wrong decisions, then I suggest that you REFRAIN from talking about YOUR wrong decisions, AGAIN, from now on, understood?

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am I am talking about a free decision. I couldn't be influenced by any trail.

Do you REALLY get this LOST and CONFUSED in these discussions, or do you just PRETEND you do, so to use "YOUR CONFUSION" as diversionary tactics when you are TOTALLY STUCK in NOT being able to back up and support your OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS here?

I KNOW you WERE talking about a 'free decision'. That WAS until you made the CLAIM that it was a WRONG DECISION.

I KNOW you ALSO can NOT be influenced by ANY trail. BUT, 'you' were the ONE who brought up the WRONGNESS here.

I just POINTED OUT and PROVED that YOUR, alleged, "free decision" was NOT an ACTUAL 'free decision' AT ALL BECAUSE 'that decision' was BIASED/INFLUENCED upon and by your past experiences.

What past experience?

YOUR PAST EXPERIENCES which INFLUENCED you to WHERE you WANTED to be.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am Since I am not aware of any experience that could affect my decision in a place that I don't know.

WHEN you made YOUR DECISION on which trail to go down, where you COMPLETELY FREE/INDEPENDENT of ANY BIAS? Or, were you WANTING to get to some particular place?

Your Honest answer here, like EVERYWHERE ELSE, would be much appreciated.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am
Off-topic.

NOT when we get down to the VERY FINE and NECESSARY DETAILS of this topic and discussion.

Off-topic again.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am
But that decision has a significant impact on my trip.

ONLY to 'you'.

But, this still ONLY goes to SHOW and PROVE that 'that decision' was NOT as 'free' as you think and BELIEVE it was.

Of course, it was a free decision.

IF, to 'you', you BELIEVE WHOLEHEARTEDLY that 'that decision' was a COMPLETELY and UTTERLY 'free decision', then OKAY.

I will just leave you with that BELIEF.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:12 am
Free decision is a decision that is not biased by options in a situation.

And, YOUR decision to take 'that trail' was OBVIOUSLY BIASED by OPTIONS.

One of those OPTIONS WAS: WHERE you WANTED to go.

You obviously don't understand what I am talking about. I suggest you contemplate my situation in order to understand that you cannot be biased by any option when the outcomes of options are not known.

But I DO UNDERSTAND TOTALLY, that 'you' are 'trying to' define 'free' in the way you do here. I also TOTALLY UNDERSTAND that 'you' HAVE TO define 'things' in VERY PARTICULAR WAYS. I also TOTALLY UNDERSTAND that you HAVE TO DO this because you have a VERY STRONG BELIEF that you are 'trying' your hardest to maintain and hold onto.

I also TOTALLY UNDERSTAND that you are doing this because if just one of your views/beliefs are WRONG, and thus are SHATTERED, then EVERY thing else you ASSUME and BELIEVE here is true will ALSO SHATTER into tiny little pieces.

Oh, and by the way, 'you', human beings, do HAVE 'free will'.

You, unfortunately, are just NOT YET able to EXPLAIN 'it' nor SEE 'it', for its True potential.

Also, and furthermore, EXPLAINING what thee True 'free will' ACTUALLY IS is FAR SIMPLER and FAR EASIER than how you have attempted to here.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:02 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:13 am
Of course that is not a correct understanding. I have never been on that trail before.

So what?

You made YOUR DECISION based on WHERE you WANTED to go, correct?

Sure. But that is not the point. I simply couldn't know which way to get so my decision at the point of conflict could not be based on anything.

BUT, it was YOU who said it was BASED on WHERE you WANTED TO GO. Because you stated that it was the WRONG trail, and thus the WRONG decision, this influenced 'me' to CLARIFY WHY? To which you CLARIFIED what 'that decision' was based upon EXACTLY.

So, YOUR DECISION WAS based on some 'thing'.

And, you had ALREADY CLARIFIED that a 'free decision' IS independent of ANY bias. But, obviously, basing a decision on WHERE you WANTED to go is a BIAS. So, it is through YOUR OWN WORDS, that you have ONCE AGAIN have contradicted YOUR OWN, previous, WORDS.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am If that is correct, then YOUR DECISION was BIASED upon some 'thing'.

My trip was biased by the fact that I wanted to reach the destination.

Yes I ALREADY KNOW this.

I worked this out from being Truly OPEN and CURIOUS, while asking 'you' Truly OPEN CLARIFYING QUESTIONS. This way I am able to learn more, and thus become wiser.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am I was not biased by anything in the point that I wanted to decide which way to get when I didn't know which way is correct.

Now, IF we REALLY want to LOOK AT this Honestly, did you pick the trail that you did because you thought that it would take you to WHERE you WANTED TO GO, or because you thought that it would take you to WHERE you DID NOT WANT TO GO?

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am AND, it was YOU who stated:
Free in here means independent of any bias.

Yes.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am So, when you CHOSE 'that trail' were you actually completely and utterly independent (or free) of ANY bias?

I am not talking about that trail when I am talking about free decision. I am talking about the point that I did not know which way to get.

Saying, in english, "I did not know which way to get", is nonsensical.

Also, you are talking about which trail 'you' DECIDED to go down when you are talking about 'free decision' here, correct?

If this is NOT correct, then WHAT DECISION, EXACTLY, are you talking about and referring to here when you used this example in relation to a 'free decision' that YOU have made in the past?

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am Your Honest answers, once again, would be much appreciated.

I did my best.

You are ALSO only FOOLING and DECEIVING 'you' here.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:03 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:43 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:15 am
You are talking about freedom of will which is the ability to do anything without constraint. We are talking about free will that is the ability to decide without any constraint in a situation with at least two possible options.

When 'you', "bahman", say 'we' here, who EXACTLY are 'you' referring to?

Because, to me, 'we' are NOT talking about 'free will' in the way you say 'we' ARE.

So what you are talking about?

'I' am talking about 'free will' in the way that FITS IN PERFECTLY with thee ACTUAL Truth here, which EVERY one could agree with and accept.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:15 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:36 am

BUT it was 'YOU', "bahman", who said that that was the WRONG trail. No one else mentioned WRONG before YOU DID.

I just asked you;
So, have you made "free" decisions in the past?

If yes, then what were they?

To be more clear I am not talking about right or wrong decisions.

If you are, supposedly and allegedly, NOT talking about right or wrong decisions, then I suggest that you REFRAIN from talking about YOUR wrong decisions, AGAIN, from now on, understood?

To be clear the point is that I didn't know which way is the correct way. Because of that, I could not be influenced by anything. The fact that I get the wrong way and get elsewhere has nothing to do with this discussion. I am talking about the point that I wanted to make the decision not knowing which way is the right way. Am I clear?

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:36 am Do you REALLY get this LOST and CONFUSED in these discussions, or do you just PRETEND you do, so to use "YOUR CONFUSION" as diversionary tactics when you are TOTALLY STUCK in NOT being able to back up and support your OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS here?

I KNOW you WERE talking about a 'free decision'. That WAS until you made the CLAIM that it was a WRONG DECISION.

I KNOW you ALSO can NOT be influenced by ANY trail. BUT, 'you' were the ONE who brought up the WRONGNESS here.

I just POINTED OUT and PROVED that YOUR, alleged, "free decision" was NOT an ACTUAL 'free decision' AT ALL BECAUSE 'that decision' was BIASED/INFLUENCED upon and by your past experiences.

What past experience?

YOUR PAST EXPERIENCES which INFLUENCED you to WHERE you WANTED to be.

I am talking about the point that I wanted to make a decision about the trail that I get not knowing which one is correct.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am Since I am not aware of any experience that could affect my decision in a place that I don't know.

WHEN you made YOUR DECISION on which trail to go down, where you COMPLETELY FREE/INDEPENDENT of ANY BIAS? Or, were you WANTING to get to some particular place?

Your Honest answer here, like EVERYWHERE ELSE, would be much appreciated.

I wanted to get to a particular place but I did not know how since I didn't know which trail is the correct one.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am
NOT when we get down to the VERY FINE and NECESSARY DETAILS of this topic and discussion.

Off-topic again.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am

ONLY to 'you'.

But, this still ONLY goes to SHOW and PROVE that 'that decision' was NOT as 'free' as you think and BELIEVE it was.

Of course, it was a free decision.

IF, to 'you', you BELIEVE WHOLEHEARTEDLY that 'that decision' was a COMPLETELY and UTTERLY 'free decision', then OKAY.

I will just leave you with that BELIEF.

It is what I think. And it is correct.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am

And, YOUR decision to take 'that trail' was OBVIOUSLY BIASED by OPTIONS.

One of those OPTIONS WAS: WHERE you WANTED to go.

You obviously don't understand what I am talking about. I suggest you contemplate my situation in order to understand that you cannot be biased by any option when the outcomes of options are not known.

But I DO UNDERSTAND TOTALLY, that 'you' are 'trying to' define 'free' in the way you do here. I also TOTALLY UNDERSTAND that 'you' HAVE TO define 'things' in VERY PARTICULAR WAYS. I also TOTALLY UNDERSTAND that you HAVE TO DO this because you have a VERY STRONG BELIEF that you are 'trying' your hardest to maintain and hold onto.

I also TOTALLY UNDERSTAND that you are doing this because if just one of your views/beliefs are WRONG, and thus are SHATTERED, then EVERY thing else you ASSUME and BELIEVE here is true will ALSO SHATTER into tiny little pieces.

Oh, and by the way, 'you', human beings, do HAVE 'free will'.

You, unfortunately, are just NOT YET able to EXPLAIN 'it' nor SEE 'it', for its True potential.

Also, and furthermore, EXPLAINING what thee True 'free will' ACTUALLY IS is FAR SIMPLER and FAR EASIER than how you have attempted to here.

Off-topic.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:30 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:02 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am
So what?

You made YOUR DECISION based on WHERE you WANTED to go, correct?

Sure. But that is not the point. I simply couldn't know which way to get so my decision at the point of conflict could not be based on anything.

BUT, it was YOU who said it was BASED on WHERE you WANTED TO GO. Because you stated that it was the WRONG trail, and thus the WRONG decision, this influenced 'me' to CLARIFY WHY? To which you CLARIFIED what 'that decision' was based upon EXACTLY.

So, YOUR DECISION WAS based on some 'thing'.

And, you had ALREADY CLARIFIED that a 'free decision' IS independent of ANY bias. But, obviously, basing a decision on WHERE you WANTED to go is a BIAS. So, it is through YOUR OWN WORDS, that you have ONCE AGAIN have contradicted YOUR OWN, previous, WORDS.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am If that is correct, then YOUR DECISION was BIASED upon some 'thing'.

My trip was biased by the fact that I wanted to reach the destination.

Yes I ALREADY KNOW this.

I worked this out from being Truly OPEN and CURIOUS, while asking 'you' Truly OPEN CLARIFYING QUESTIONS. This way I am able to learn more, and thus become wiser.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am I was not biased by anything in the point that I wanted to decide which way to get when I didn't know which way is correct.

Now, IF we REALLY want to LOOK AT this Honestly, did you pick the trail that you did because you thought that it would take you to WHERE you WANTED TO GO, or because you thought that it would take you to WHERE you DID NOT WANT TO GO?

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am AND, it was YOU who stated:
Free in here means independent of any bias.

Yes.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am So, when you CHOSE 'that trail' were you actually completely and utterly independent (or free) of ANY bias?

I am not talking about that trail when I am talking about free decision. I am talking about the point that I did not know which way to get.

Saying, in english, "I did not know which way to get", is nonsensical.

Also, you are talking about which trail 'you' DECIDED to go down when you are talking about 'free decision' here, correct?

If this is NOT correct, then WHAT DECISION, EXACTLY, are you talking about and referring to here when you used this example in relation to a 'free decision' that YOU have made in the past?

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 am Your Honest answers, once again, would be much appreciated.

I did my best.

You are ALSO only FOOLING and DECEIVING 'you' here.

I already discussed things in the previous post. Hopefully, it gets you somewhere.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:31 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:03 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:43 am

When 'you', "bahman", say 'we' here, who EXACTLY are 'you' referring to?

Because, to me, 'we' are NOT talking about 'free will' in the way you say 'we' ARE.

So what you are talking about?

'I' am talking about 'free will' in the way that FITS IN PERFECTLY with thee ACTUAL Truth here, which EVERY one could agree with and accept.

I am talking about free will given the definition. What you are talking about?

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:50 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:15 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am
To be more clear I am not talking about right or wrong decisions.

If you are, supposedly and allegedly, NOT talking about right or wrong decisions, then I suggest that you REFRAIN from talking about YOUR wrong decisions, AGAIN, from now on, understood?

To be clear the point is that I didn't know which way is the correct way. Because of that, I could not be influenced by anything.

BUT YOU WERE INFLUENCED BY WHERE YOU WANTED TO GO, OBVIOUSLY.

Remember the ONLY one that you are 'trying to' DECEIVE here is 'you'. And, I will remind you that IT IS WORKING.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am The fact that I get the wrong way and get elsewhere has nothing to do with this discussion. I am talking about the point that I wanted to make the decision not knowing which way is the right way. Am I clear?

Yes. You BELIEVE that 'that decision', at that time, was made ABSOLUTELY FREELY, correct?

The MAIN UNFORTUNATE PART, however, IS; you were ALREADY under the INFLUENCE/BIAS of there was a 'right' and a 'wrong' way. Which you have just CLEARLY SHOWN and PROVEN in what you just CLEARLY WROTE HERE.

Also, what makes this all the more HUMOROUS to watch and observe is that what you are 'trying to' say and CLAIM here can be done so much MORE EASILY and SIMPLY.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am
What past experience?

YOUR PAST EXPERIENCES which INFLUENCED you to WHERE you WANTED to be.

I am talking about the point that I wanted to make a decision about the trail that I get not knowing which one is correct.

Okay. So you had NO intention of getting ANYWHERE, when you were at that junction and where you were making a decision, correct?

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am Since I am not aware of any experience that could affect my decision in a place that I don't know.

WHEN you made YOUR DECISION on which trail to go down, where you COMPLETELY FREE/INDEPENDENT of ANY BIAS? Or, were you WANTING to get to some particular place?

Your Honest answer here, like EVERYWHERE ELSE, would be much appreciated.

I wanted to get to a particular place but I did not know how since I didn't know which trail is the correct one.

So, to you there WAS "a correct trail" and thus "an incorrect trail" ALSO, correct?

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am
Off-topic again.


Of course, it was a free decision.

IF, to 'you', you BELIEVE WHOLEHEARTEDLY that 'that decision' was a COMPLETELY and UTTERLY 'free decision', then OKAY.

I will just leave you with that BELIEF.

It is what I think. And it is correct.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:36 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:49 am
You obviously don't understand what I am talking about. I suggest you contemplate my situation in order to understand that you cannot be biased by any option when the outcomes of options are not known.

But I DO UNDERSTAND TOTALLY, that 'you' are 'trying to' define 'free' in the way you do here. I also TOTALLY UNDERSTAND that 'you' HAVE TO define 'things' in VERY PARTICULAR WAYS. I also TOTALLY UNDERSTAND that you HAVE TO DO this because you have a VERY STRONG BELIEF that you are 'trying' your hardest to maintain and hold onto.

I also TOTALLY UNDERSTAND that you are doing this because if just one of your views/beliefs are WRONG, and thus are SHATTERED, then EVERY thing else you ASSUME and BELIEVE here is true will ALSO SHATTER into tiny little pieces.

Oh, and by the way, 'you', human beings, do HAVE 'free will'.

You, unfortunately, are just NOT YET able to EXPLAIN 'it' nor SEE 'it', for its True potential.

Also, and furthermore, EXPLAINING what thee True 'free will' ACTUALLY IS is FAR SIMPLER and FAR EASIER than how you have attempted to here.

Off-topic.