Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote:

Needle's Eye, camel, rich man.

I know the passage, but I can't tell what you're trying to make of it. It's about pride.
... it's the lack of awareness of the foetus that matters when we are discussing the ethics

No, that saying by Jesus is not about rich poseurs . It is unambiguously about how the rich man is as likely to get to Heaven as a camel can pass through the Needle's Eye. Jesus at all times supports the despised and disposessed who take precedence before the rich and powerful.

When we are discussing the ethics of abortion we lack immediate instructions from God and are thrown on to our own resources for considerations of medical ethics. You cannot be a thinking Christian and deny that very poor children and adults often have lives that contain more suffering than the life of any foetus.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 6:25 pm Immanuel Can wrote:

Needle's Eye, camel, rich man.

I know the passage, but I can't tell what you're trying to make of it. It's about pride.
... it's the lack of awareness of the foetus that matters when we are discussing the ethics

No, that saying by Jesus is not about rich poseurs . It is unambiguously about how the rich man is as likely to get to Heaven as a camel can pass through the Needle's Eye. Jesus at all times supports the despised and disposessed who take precedence before the rich and powerful.

I don't think the context bears out that reading. You see Jesus mixing equally with rich men like Simon and poor ones like lepers. It's not that rich men are despised by God, nor that poor ones are automatically privileged either: it's that rich people tend to think of themselves as self-sufficient, and thus not in need of salvation, whereas poor ones are more likely to know their need and respond to an offer of rescue.

You find Jesus told stories about good and bad rich men, and good and bad poor men. And his disciples included both the rich and the poor, though admittedly more of the latter than the former...likely for reasons like what I suggest above, as illustrated in the case of the famous "Rich Young Ruler" who came to see Jesus.

When we are discussing the ethics of abortion we lack immediate instructions from God

You mean like, "Thou shalt not commit murder"? That looks pretty immediate to me.

You cannot be a thinking Christian and deny that very poor children and adults often have lives that contain more suffering than the life of any foetus.

Maybe. But that's not the case under discussion here. Here we're talking only about sex-selective abortion.

This isn't an economic or medically-excusable thing: it's a deliberate decision to keep a male child -- to treasure, celebrate, feed, raise, love and pay for a healthy boy child -- and to take any healthy female child and rip her into bits and flush her into a sink, when you were perfectly capable to have treasured, celebrated, fed, raised, loved and paid for her instead.

Yes, elective abortion based on choosing the sex of the child is unjustifiable.

Immanuel Can:

I don't think the context bears out that reading. You see Jesus mixing equally with rich men like Simon and poor ones like lepers. It's not that rich men are despised by God, nor that poor ones are automatically privileged either: it's that rich people tend to think of themselves as self-sufficient, and thus not in need of salvation, whereas poor ones are more likely to know their need and respond to an offer of rescue.

That salvationist interpretation is interesting. I wonder if it's compatible with my preferred socialist interpretation.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 10:32 pm That salvationist interpretation is interesting. I wonder if it's compatible with my preferred socialist interpretation.

Well, I'd be more concerned that it would be compatible with what Jesus Christ meant. Your opinion and mine are both a long way behind that.

Any opinion on sex-selective abortions? It is okay to just plain prefer to keep a male child and to kill a female one, all else being equal?

When is abortion the right thing to do?

In what circumstances is abortion preferable to birth?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 10:48 pm When is abortion the right thing to do?

In what circumstances is abortion preferable to birth?

* sounds of crickets chirping *

QUESTIONS FOR ANYONE

When is abortion the right thing to do?

In what circumstances is abortion preferable to birth?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 2:48 pm QUESTIONS FOR ANYONE

When is abortion the right thing to do?

In what circumstances is abortion preferable to birth?

*double crickets *

Hate to say it, Henry, but I don't think anybody can step up to that one.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 10:48 pm When is abortion the right thing to do?

In what circumstances is abortion preferable to birth?

When the woman decides it is.
That's a really stupid question even allowing for the fact that a stupid yank asked it (especially one who makes a huge show of 'being an island' on which his FREEDOM is sacrosanct, and where no bastard can tell him what do to). How ironic

Weird the way religious nuts are given a free reign to spam up a philosophy site with their misoygynistic, superstitious crap.
Any 'argument' that is based purely on superstitious crap is always going to be entirely worthless. Dog shit with a pink bow is still dog shit.


You morons really need to change your movement title.

I asked...

When is abortion the right thing to do?

In what circumstances is abortion preferable to birth?


veg responded...

When the woman decides it is.


Next questions...

When is abortion the wrong thing to do?

In what circumstances is birth preferable to abortion?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:42 pm I asked...

When is abortion the right thing to do?

In what circumstances is abortion preferable to birth?


veg responded...

When the woman decides it is.


Next questions...

When is abortion the wrong thing to do?

In what circumstances is birth preferable to abortion?

And I pointed out that you would need to ask the person involved.

just to be clear: it's the pregnant woman who decides if abortion is right or wrong; who decides if aborton or birth is preferable, yeah?

No other person has a say, yeah?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 11:46 pm just to be clear: it's the pregnant woman who decides if abortion is right or wrong; who decides if aborton or birth is preferable, yeah?

No other person has a say, yeah?

Wow. You are quick today. And it's not a matter of 'right or wrong'. It's whether or not she requires it. Are you trying to encroach on someone else's FREEDOM Henry? Surely not.

"it's not a matter of 'right or wrong'."

I disagree. At the very least: the question of 'right' and 'wrong' figures into the woman's choice. This is: if she finds abortion 'wrong', she won't abort even if doin' so would perhaps simplfy her life. Another woman, believing abortion is okay, might have one, even when she has no over-riding reason to.

#

"It's whether or not she requires it."

Why might she require it?

#

"Are you trying to encroach on someone else's FREEDOM Henry? Surely not."

Is the aborting woman encroaching on someone's freedom and life?