Philosophy Now Forum

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:46 pm A computer is comparing two 'Jane' character strings, and finds that they are alike similarly to how to protons are alike, and gives a true answer.

OK, so what are you comparing when you assert that A = A is true?

What do you mean by "="?

Logik wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:49 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:46 pm A computer is comparing two 'Jane' character strings, and finds that they are alike similarly to how to protons are alike, and gives a true answer.

OK, so what are you comparing when you assert that A = A is true?

What do you mean by "="?

It means that A is itself.

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:55 pm It means that A is itself.

Pay attention. There are TWO A's. Like TWO photons.

What does A = A mean in context of TWO A's.

Logik wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:00 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:55 pm It means that A is itself.

Pay attention. There are TWO A's. Like TWO photons.

What does A = A mean in context of TWO A's.

No, there aren't two different A's in the abstract.

There are only two different A's in the concrete, like in a computer.

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:02 pm No, there aren't two different A's in the abstract.

There are only two different A's in the concrete, like in a computer.

Listen yourself!

Your are admitting that the abstract does not correspond to the concrete. You are violating correspondence!

If there are TWO Janes in the concrete then how many Janes should there be in the abstract?

Logik wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:03 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:02 pm No, there aren't two different A's in the abstract.

There are only two different A's in the concrete, like in a computer.

Listen yourself! Your are admitting that your abstraction is NOT representative of the concrete.

You are violating correspondence!

No, you are violating correspondence.

When it comes to a computer with two A's, we must create two different A's in the abstract too. In which case the law of identity is no longer in question.

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:06 pm When it comes to a computer with two A's, we must create two different A's in the abstract too. In which case the law of identity is no longer in question.

Very good!

Create two abstract Janes using Classical Logic.

Logik wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:07 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:06 pm When it comes to a computer with two A's, we must create two different A's in the abstract too. In which case the law of identity is no longer in question.

Very good!

Create two abstract Janes using Classical Logic.

That's what I've been doing all along, so?

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:08 pm That's what I've been doing all along, so?

Show me a formal expression. Two Janes in Classical Logic.

Logik wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:09 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:08 pm That's what I've been doing all along, so?

Show me a formal expression. Two Janes in Classical Logic.

string('Jane') = string('Jane')

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:10 pm string('Jane') = string('Jane')

That's the same string twice.

Like A = A.

Show me two Janes.

Logik wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:11 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:10 pm string('Jane') = string('Jane')

That's the same string twice.

Like A = A.

Show me two Janes.

What do you mean? You mean like two 100% alike humans?

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:12 pm What do you mean? You mean like two 100% alike humans?

I want you give me a logical expression which says Jane = Jane => False when you are comparing different Janes
and Jane = Jane > True when you are comparing the same Janes.

Logik wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:14 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:12 pm What do you mean? You mean like two 100% alike humans?

I want you give me a logical expression which says Jane = Jane is False.

Because they are different Janes.

But what do you mean? Are we talking about two humans or two strings in a computer or what?

Atla wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:17 pm But what do you mean? Are we talking about two humans or two strings in a computer or what?

We are talking about reality!

There are two humans. Both are called Jane. There are also two protons with identical charges (on your insistence).

Formulate the following propositions in classical logic for us:

Jane = Jane => True (when comparing the same Jane to itself)
Jane = Jane => False (when comparing the two Janes to each other).
Proton = Proton => True (when comparing the two protons to each other)
Proton = Proton => True (when comparing the same proton to itself)