Philosophy Now Forum

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:36 pm Yes, and even more defining: gender is that which naturally and normally unfolds from XX and XY.

You are conflating sex and gender.

We understand very well how the "birds and the bees" work in nature. What is the purpose of the gender-distinction in the ENGINEERED system that is society?

I'm not conflatin', I'm properly aligning the two.

"What is the purpose of the gender-distinction in the ENGINEERED system that is society?"

Irrelevant to my position, which has everything to do with facts.

Simply, again: It is a lie or an insanity for a man to claim he's a woman. Now he can wallow in that delusion as he likes, and you can wallow with him if you like, but I won't.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:59 pm I'm not conflatin', I'm properly aligning the two.

Well, then maybe we should "properly align" your social security number with your date of birth (again) so that it's easier to discriminate based on age. With this randomization - it's impossible to know anymore who the old farts are!

Would make throwing job applications in the trash can sooo much easier!

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:59 pm "What is the purpose of the gender-distinction in the ENGINEERED system that is society?"

Irrelevant to my position, which has everything to do with facts.

I know right. Facts - like age. Which we worked so hard to remove from social security numbers.

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:41 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:31 pm Gender recognition is defined by the sex organs one is born with and has at the time.

1. Defined by whom?
2. What is the purpose of this distinction/recognition?

It is a necessary distinction for anyone aware of the difference between yin and yang and how the elemental forces manifest as human beings. Those who understand and respect the complimentary differences between male and female energies will know why a healthy free society will necessarily accept these differences and clarify their respective values.

This is not to deny the existence of this third sex but only that without understanding the differences between yin and yang in humanity society loses any sense of objective purpose and potential.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:39 pm

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:41 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:31 pm Gender recognition is defined by the sex organs one is born with and has at the time.

1. Defined by whom?
2. What is the purpose of this distinction/recognition?

It is a necessary distinction for anyone aware of the difference between yin and yang and how the elemental forces manifest as human beings. Those who understand and respect the complimentary differences between male and female energies will know why a healthy free society will necessarily accept these differences and clarify their respective values.

This is not to deny the existence of this third sex but only that without understanding the differences between yin and yang in humanity society loses any sense of objective purpose and potential.

Cool story. But nobody is pushing for the abolishment of the old categories and so we aren't "losing" anything? We are just creating new ones.

Can you think of a reason why higher fidelity distinction is worse for society?

Was color TV worse than black & white?
Was Full HD worse than your CRT tube?

I mean - this shit is confusing. If I were to ever live in the USA - I am technically an "African American"! To spoil the joke - I am white (not that it matters).

But if one tickbox gets me preferential treatment - I am going to tick it. Which is why I am actually registered as 'black' in South Africa. Naturally, people don't believe me so - I show them my ID book.

Fuck your system

"Well, then maybe we should "properly align" your social security number with your date of birth."

Go ahead. I work for myself and I don't expect that'll change any time soon. But, if I do gotta go job huntin', my age will be on the application plain as day.

And: what does any of this have to do with the topic?

Nuthin'...you're flailin'.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:04 pm And: what does any of this have to do with the topic?

Nuthin'...you're flailin'.

The topic is precisely the fact that SSN is not related to age and randomised so that the system cannot discriminate. You are just a number. Not a 60 year old number with a penis.

Because it is an engineered system, and the PURPOSE of the system is HUMAN well-being the 'facts' don't really matter in the design. What matters is harm and the reduction thereof.

Your sex matters to your doctor and to your spouse. Society is for humans. Not men and women.

Documentation accurately reflectin' the number of years a body has been alive (at best, a legal matter), and, the perfectly normal and natural (and unavoidable) unfolding of physical and psychological traits as rooted exclusively in the flesh (an utterly foundational/biological matter): now that's a goddamned masterful act of conflation, buddy.

And you did it with a straight face, I reckon.

Yeah, we're done here, you & me, on this topic.

Why?

cuz you're just bein' silly.

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:43 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:36 pm Yes, and even more defining: gender is that which naturally and normally unfolds from XX and XY.

You are conflating sex and gender.

We understand very well how the "birds and the bees" work in nature. What is the purpose of the gender-distinction in the ENGINEERED system that is society?

If 'sex and gender' are two different things then why would anyone claim to be the 'wrong' gender? This kind of unscientific, shallow, illogical bullshit is so typical of the PCturd lobby.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:20 pm If 'sex and gender' are two different things then why would anyone claim to be the 'wrong' gender? This kind of unscientific, shallow, illogical bullshit is so typical of the PCturd lobby.

And this appeal to 'logic' is just a disguised appeal to authority. You are abusing logic to justify your taxonomy. No wait. You never learned to use it, so I guess Hanlon's razor applies.

You have my sympathy. I was as ignorant as you are once upon a time.

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:24 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:20 pm If 'sex and gender' are two different things then why would anyone claim to be the 'wrong' gender? This kind of unscientific, shallow, illogical bullshit is so typical of the PCturd lobby.

And this appeal to 'logic' is just a disguised appeal to authority. You are abusing logic to justify your taxonomy. No wait. You never learned to use it, so I guess Hanlon's razor applies.

You have my sympathy. I was as ignorant as you are once upon a time.

Typical of the PCturd lobby--taking the moral high ground and attempting to portray themselves as having a monopoly on kindness and empathy. Of course that's all show. PCturdism is synonymous with self-serving hypocrisy--it is a religion, after all.

Btw, indulging fantasies and encouraging vulnerable and mentally fragile people (and now children) to mutilate their bodies is hardly showing 'empathy and kindness'.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:45 pm Typical of the PCturd lobby--taking the moral high ground and attempting to portray themselves as having a monopoly on kindness and empathy.

Typical of an ignoramus to turn it into a dichotomy. You may be empathetic and kind. I am just more so than you. So there's clearly room for improvement on your part.

I am willing to give up my language, pre-conceptions if it means it'll make others' lives even a little bit better.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:45 pm Of course that's all show. PCturdism is synonymous with self-serving hypocrisy--it is a religion, after all.

It's all a religion. And you get to choose what you value most.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Münchhausen_trilemma

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:51 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:45 pm Typical of the PCturd lobby--taking the moral high ground and attempting to portray themselves as having a monopoly on kindness and empathy.

Typical of an ignoramus to turn it into a dichotomy. You may be empathetic and kind. I am just more so than you. So there's clearly room for improvement on your part.

I am willing to give up my language, pre-conceptions and ADAPT so that OTHER PEOPLE can feel comfortable.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:45 pm Of course that's all show. PCturdism is synonymous with self-serving hypocrisy--it is a religion, after all.

It's all a religion. And you get to choose what you value most.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Münchhausen_trilemma

No, you are most definitely not more empathetic and kind than I am. But thank you for proving my point.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:53 pm No, you are most definitely not more empathetic and kind than I am. But thank you for proving my point.

I voluntarily and without reward risk my life for strangers. What do you put on the line for the well-being of your fellow humans?

TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:54 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:53 pm No, you are most definitely not more empathetic and kind than I am. But thank you for proving my point.

I risk my life for strangers. What do you put on the line?

LOL. So 'risking your life for strangers' is a sign of empathy and kindness? Umm no. It's a sign that you (perhaps) chose a particular kind of profession. Do you spend your days weeping and suffering for all the people you couldn't save?
I do hope you aren't a cop, because if you are then you are seriously deluding yourself.
Professions like ambulance driver are very useful, but they ENJOY that kind of work, which is why they do it. I think a very kind and empathetic person would go insane quite quickly in that kind of job.
And don't even get me started if you are in the military (on a philosophy site?). They tend to make statements like 'putting...on the line' and making shallow claims about 'risk' and 'sacrifice' blah, blah....