Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:16 am 1: You know you don't know anything.

2: You think you know, and have no awareness that you do not know what you only think you know.

Do you really believe that?

thedoc wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:36 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:16 am 1: You know you don't know anything.

2: You think you know, and have no awareness that you do not know what you only think you know.

Do you really believe that?

Beingness doesn't have to believe anything to be, it just is..self evident.

It doesn't have to know either, for self evidence is self standing. No proof required.

Knowing and not-knowing are within the dream...within language which is illusory by nature. Nature is not an illusion, but any description or interpretation of it is.

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:16 am It never shocks me anymore why people choose to insult others because sometimes people wake up to the realisation that the world is a passing circus full of wild animals, humans being no different, and then there's the ultimate realisation of knowing there is no one behind those round balls of goo, puss and blood, making fun of other people, so it's kind of really funny to watch, and can be quite addictive.

Yes... (the way I see it) it is a circus and we can have fun with it. It's not that serious... but we are responsible for how we play. When we can play without malice or hate or some kind of manic ego, it can be enlightening and enlivening to speak directly (even if "harshly") as a way to challenge one (and the ideas they espouse). Again, not from some kind of intent to hurt or seek superiority, and not from projections... but from an intent of clarity to call out truth/lies, and from a desire to evolve honestly rather than clinging to "false idols", whatever they may be.

Dontaskme wrote:All knowledge is opinion because it's illusory made-up stuff. ...

Then your 'knowledge' is pointless.

The earth floating around in space in a vast universe beyond comprehension doesn't need to know itself to be what it is, to be as it is...language seems to be the only thing alive, ...

Eh! And all those other living things are what?

but there is no living tissue in language ...and yet the language dictates whether something is alive or dead....knowledge basically informs the illusory reality that there are separate things walking around the planet behaving as if they have a handle on everything that's going on as if they are the knowers.....the world of knowledge is so false. ...

You fundamentally misunderstand what language is and how it applies to thought.

That's the only real knowledge, that it is fake...but we all have to play the game, none of us have much choice, it's live the lie or die. ...

And you explain the existence of the computer you are writing this toss on how?

Knowledge is power, and people are more than willing to pay for that power and is the sickness of society. ...

Knowledge is power but how you use it is the issue. How would you recompense someone who shared their knowledge with you then?

All for the penny game which never really leads anywhere, if it did we'd stop craving material goods, and people. ...

I think you'd be very unhappy trying to survive on a desert island.

Nothing ever satisfies because satisfaction cannot be found in the world of things or people.

Not a Buddhist then.

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:08 pmYou fundamentally misunderstand what language is and how it applies to thought.

Okay if you say so, if I misunderstand, then enlighten me?

What is language and how does it apply to thought in your world?

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Dontaskme wrote: What is language and how does it apply to thought in your world?

It's an inbuilt function of this social-primate that is only developed if there is another one around. It applies to thought as it is what is used to communicate them to others.

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:10 am

Dontaskme wrote: What is language and how does it apply to thought in your world?

It's an inbuilt function of this social-primate that is only developed if there is another one around. It applies to thought as it is what is used to communicate them to others.

That's right.

There is no you without other (thought)

The (thought) creates the thinker.

No thought, no thinker.

Without other (thought) there is no you the thinker.

They have to exist in the same moment.

They are one and the other. The same one appearing as two.

Hope you understand.

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No one is happening.

There is only happening.

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Dontaskme wrote:That's right.

There is no you without other (thought)

Disagree, there is no you without a body with senses in an external world. I'd agree with there is no you in the sense of you thinking of yourself as an other without another language user.

The (thought) creates the thinker

No thought, no thinker.

Without other (thought) there is no you the thinker.

They have to exist in the same moment.

They are one and the other. The same one appearing as two.

Hope you understand.

Agree but the thing that is thoughting and thinking are one and the same but if you are saying that there is an other thoughting or thinking our thoughts or thinks I disagree.

No one is happening. ...

Disagree as the body is happening and because we can also think we are happening.

There is only happening.

For those things without thought I'd agree.

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:40 pm

There is no you without other (thought)

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:40 pmDisagree, there is no you without a body with senses in an external world.

You are not the body, the body is a thought arising in you inseparable from you. You are nothing without a thought. The thought creates the thinker, the thinker does not create the thought. For if there are no thoughts, there is no thinker. Thinker and thought are mutually arising in the same moment...as ''thinking'' ... Thinker thinking thought are one.

If there was a someone thinking their thoughts they would be able to choose all their thoughts. Thoughts appear to no one, not a someone. The someone is identical to the thought.

No one is happening. ...

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:40 pmDisagree as the body is happening and because we can also think we are happening.

Thinking is inseparable from the happening.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:05 pm You are not the body, the body is a thought arising in you inseparable from you. You are nothing without a thought. The thought creates the thinker, the thinker does not create the thought. For if there are no thoughts, there is no thinker. Thinker and thought are mutually arising in the same moment...as ''thinking'' ... Thinker thinking thought are one.

If there was a someone thinking their thoughts they would be able to choose all their thoughts. Thoughts appear to no one, not a someone. The someone is identical to the thought.

Thinking is inseparable from the happening.

How has this perspective been useful/beneficial to you?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:17 pm How has this perspective been useful/beneficial to you?

I finally arrived home after a very long journey only to realise no one can arrive at arriving, we're always home, home never leaves, but sometimes we leave home only for the love of wanting to be home again.

See here https://image.slidesharecdn.com/thejour ... 1476423364

Also here https://image.slidesharecdn.com/theegos ... 1465985359

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:52 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:17 pm How has this perspective been useful/beneficial to you?

I finally arrived home after a very long journey only to realise no one can arrive at arriving, we're always home, home never leaves, but sometimes we leave home only for the love of wanting to be home again.

See here...

Okay, so because of and in spite of your realizations, your posts have demonstrated a range of expressions/perspectives/dream-states. This is your "dance", yes?... just as we all have "dances" we are doing because of and in spite of our realizations. Do you think all dances are equal in importance and meaning? (I do.) Do you think it's okay to make fun of dances? (I do. )

Hearing varying perspectives/stories (which are countless) can be interesting, but I find it even more interesting to hear what people DO with their insights/ideas/beliefs (beyond telling others about them). How are they (and/or their experience/dance) actually transformed by the “insights” -– how do they use it to evolve or become more masterful? Simply telling everyone else about “truths” (which might only be serving to put the speaker in the role of “knower”) is not demonstrating how those “truths” are put into use. In other words, what difference are they actually making? Simply declaring that “it is”, can be responded to with “so?”.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:38 pm Simply telling everyone else about “truths” (which might only be serving to put the speaker in the role of “knower”) is not demonstrating how those “truths” are put into use. In other words, what difference are they actually making? Simply declaring that “it is”, can be responded to with “so?”.

We can show people the door, but ultimately only they can walk through it.

What's wrong with that?

So people are just so, nothing wrong with so either. It is what it is, so it is.

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Like I've said countless times, it's just what's happening. No big deal.

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Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:38 pm Simply telling everyone else about “truths” (which might only be serving to put the speaker in the role of “knower”)

You are wrong to make such an assumption, that's the problem with you, you always jump to the conclusion someone knows, and yet I have always said the opposite, knowing is not known by a someone, you are the knowing.

The truth cannot be told. Simply because there is no knower to know truth, there is only not-knowing knowing.

Those who tell the truth have no followers.


Truth is an idea only. And you like the idea over truth.


No one knows the truth, and that not knowing is the only truth.
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Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:38 pm In other words, what difference are they actually making? Simply declaring that “it is”, can be responded to with “so?”.

Everyone makes a difference, the difference between you and me is you are rather blasé about life. No one ever grew up you know. No one ever stopped imagining you know.

Would you say that to your 3 year old child when she shows you the sandcastle she built on the beach...would you just look at it and say SO!

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:24 pm
Would you say that to your 3 year old child when she shows you the sandcastle she built on the beach

I suppose you would say: "who is this who who built the sandcastle"?