Philosophy Now Forum

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Dubious wrote:

Greta wrote:
Trump talks about isolationism but, if he wants to embark on a trillion dollar series of infrastructure projects, the money has to come from somewhere outside the US. The nation will become ever more beholden to China. If Trump and co are too bellicose and threatening, then they might not get any loans.

I don't believe Trump expects to receive loans from China whom he's already targeted as currency manipulators...among other things. It's more likely more helicopter money be made available to fund his projects which means more monetary inflation with the side-effect of making U.S. goods cheaper for export due to a devalued U.S. $$$.

But with Trump, who knows! In spite of everything he said during the campaign, the future remains a black box. He will never justify his decisions to anyone regardless of their consequences. The White House will, in effect, become hermetically sealed as a source of real information or, as in Russia or China, be simply camouflaged by propaganda. Trump's disgust of the Media - which actually is disgusting - I think will ensure the retrenchment of any openness the public has been offered so far.

He's a bit out of his depth and shell-shocked at the moment. I wonder what will happen when he gets his confidence and all that power goes to his head.

That's precisely the danger!
Being the sudden recipient of such power - which he may not even have expected - temporarily retreats the ego into a more moderate stance until he gets used to it and then...we'll have to wait and see. It's not always the most intelligent who function as the greatest catalysts of change.

Dubious wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Dubious wrote:
I don't believe Trump expects to receive loans from China whom he's already targeted as currency manipulators...among other things. It's more likely more helicopter money be made available to fund his projects which means more monetary inflation with the side-effect of making U.S. goods cheaper for export due to a devalued U.S. $$$.

But with Trump, who knows! In spite of everything he said during the campaign, the future remains a black box. He will never justify his decisions to anyone regardless of their consequences. The White House will, in effect, become hermetically sealed as a source of real information or, as in Russia or China, be simply camouflaged by propaganda. Trump's disgust of the Media - which actually is disgusting - I think will ensure the retrenchment of any openness the public has been offered so far.

He's a bit out of his depth and shell-shocked at the moment. I wonder what will happen when he gets his confidence and all that power goes to his head.

That's precisely the danger!
Being the sudden recipient of such power - which he may not even have expected - temporarily retreats the ego into a more moderate stance until he gets used to it and then...we'll have to wait and see. It's not always the most intelligent who function as the greatest catalysts of change.

Who knows? Good point.
Not everyone has the luxury sit back and wait to snipe after events play out.

Rarely does anyone, even a president, act with full and complete knowledge.
And yet act they must, sometimes with serious implications.



Here’s how it works.
Feel free to verify.

Trump is street smart.
He chose politics at the end of his successful career in business.
In the big view, that is the proper sequence of life.
That is when a man has the most wisdom, if he didn’t cave into fear somewhere along the line.
And just opinion, but I think Trump is a good man.
Thus in the balance, the world will win, when compared to any possible alternative.

When compared to any possible alternative.

Does that emphasis put the topic beyond the realm of philosophy?
Or, is anything but that emphasis outside the realm of philosophy, and therefore, irrelevant to the situation and its ethics.
The question is not rhetorical.

Herbert Hoover has the closest resume to Trump as presidents go. He mishandled a serious recession that Roosevelt experimented into the Great Depression, and that ended after the Big One, when the factories retooled and all the folks had something to do other than follow the orders of their hand-held communicators telling them to march in the streets for the cameras, assuming that such communicators would have been more than Roddenberry’s dream at that time. And who doesn’t like light reading. A Man In Full by Tom Wolfe is enjoyed even by women. Charlie Croker has some interesting and humorous psychological similarities with Trump. Fiction of course. Trump’s story is too unbelievable for fiction, so Wolfe was a bit limited in his view.

Just wait until Trump finds out what Obama knows.
Then you might see some policy changes.

Walker wrote:Interesting. I couldn’t find that Hitler was charged with the crime of killing millions of people.
He was never charged with that crime.

Maybe my research is deficient.

Was Hitler innocent of that crime because he wasn’t charged with that crime, FlashDanger pants?

Your original question was...

Walker wrote:Iwas Hitler ever charged with a crime?

It was attached to a lazy complaint about other people not researching shit.

You got a sufficient answer for such a lazy question. Stop being a whiny self-basting bitch.

I'm wondering how Donald, Melania, and their son are going to endure living in the whitehouse (possibly for 4 long years), compared to the plush lives of freedom they had in Trump tower?

Donald is going to have to work and think hard, himself, every day -- he can't just pay other people to do it. There will be people opposing and ridiculing him constantly, which I doubt he has encountered much, nor has the temperament for. He will have to work within the government's impossible budget and restrictions for all the tasks in front of him (another thing I'm guessing he doesn't have the temperament for). And he probably won't have the 1-1/2 hours needed at the beginning of every day to get his hair done. Gone, too, are the days of standing in front of adoring crowds daily and saying whatever the hell he feels like, which seems to be what he feeds off of. The GOP is likely to be continually embarrassed by his foolish representation of their party.

And Melania and her son are going to be living in that cage -- which surely isn't going to make them very happy. They're going to end up hating Donald too.

The whole situation sounds as hellish "inside" as it feels "outside" for many of us. Massive widespread demonstrations and violent conflicts are probably going to become an ongoing part of everyday American life now. We are used to seeing that happening on the news in other countries -- perhaps thinking them dysfunctional or primitive for it -- and now we are seeing it in ourselves. This election has brought out of the shadows, a more complete view of who we actually are. It's horrifying to see and accept it... but truth takes humankind further than fantasy... and I guess the main objective of life is always to explore further. So here we go.

FlashDangerpants wrote:

Walker wrote:Interesting. I couldn’t find that Hitler was charged with the crime of killing millions of people.
He was never charged with that crime.

Maybe my research is deficient.

Was Hitler innocent of that crime because he wasn’t charged with that crime, FlashDanger pants?

Your original question was...

Walker wrote:Iwas Hitler ever charged with a crime?

It was attached to a lazy complaint about other people not researching shit.

You got a sufficient answer for such a lazy question. Stop being a whiny self-basting bitch.

Fuck you twice.

It was sufficient, but obviously not for you.

How about answering the question, because your non-answer may be sufficient for your standards, but objectively you're just making noise.

Was Hitler innocent of that crime of killing millions because he wasn't charged with that crime, FlashDanger pants?

And to keep the question relevant to the topic, since you may have wandered off into an irrelevancy, did Clinton not commit crimes simply because she wasn't charged and prosecuted, and just because she is seeking a pardon for crimes she didn't commit?

Now, can you answer these simple questions without being a little c***?

Lacewing wrote:The whole situation sounds as hellish "inside" as it feels "outside" for many of us. Massive widespread demonstrations and violent conflicts are probably going to become an ongoing part of everyday American life now. We are used to seeing that happening on the news in other countries -- perhaps thinking them dysfunctional or primitive for it -- and now we are seeing it in ourselves. This election has brought out of the shadows, a more complete view of who we actually are. It's horrifying to see and accept it... but truth takes humankind further than fantasy... and I guess the main objective of life is always to explore further. So here we go.

Always the last to know. Don’t worry about it. As the radical Left reveals its underbelly it feels exposed, but the fact is folks know the corruption and have learned how to handle the loud and uninformed. The election proves it.

Give Trump the Nobel Peace Prize.
By objective standards he deserves it more than Obama did, or does.

If protesting in the streets should become the alt-normal, it will be because a Progressive is not in the White House.

I mean, come on. You've got government-employee school teachers letting kids out of school to protest the election of the POTUS.
Self-indulgent, self-absorbed, and inappropriate bullshit, that is.

Well, there's this. (A joke I could not resist).

Everyone follows their core, determining narratives. The Radical Left, according to its spokesmen, is plotting its course. For them opposition is a call to unify and to press forward with their particular agenda. What underlies that agenda is in essence the Marxian project. Destabilization, demoralization, attack on traditional forms and on identity. The Left's project in America extends back many years and, to understand its full sweep is not so easy.

The way to bring things to a crisis point is through 'praxis'. That means activity with a specific end in mind. One acts in the present to bring about the conditions of destabilization that enable one to achieve one's social and political goals. If you can't get things through normal channels there is nothing to stop you from overt disruption.

The Left's project is that of converting the US into some form of progressive socialist state it would seem. In this last cycle of time everyone has noticed the open collusion between the media and the Democratic Party/state apparatus. To many it became overt and bald. The universities become 'safe-spaces' where free thinking and free speech is controlled through strange, emotionalized mechanisms. Opening your mouth can get you into hot water and lead to losing your job. Politically correct idea has become established as 'normalcy'. This is how it begins.

The resistance which has come from white America is really a factor here. And one cannot put aside the racialist issue. Amy Goodman presents it as 'backlash' to 8 years of a Black president and, I suppose, there is some truth to this. Obama's presidency did not seem to bridge racial and cultural divisions and, in any case, and in America, these are simply realities that have to be taken into consideration. It remains to be seen but, from where I sit, I see the dismantling of the post-war multicultural social and political project. For those on the 'progressive-left' this will seem the end of the world. For those of different orientations it will seem natural, good and inevitable. But remember: The political Left has for some time assumed the mantle of 'righteousness' and its own narratives describe it as 'righteous' and 'good', as if dispensed by Heaven itself. It still holds a great deal of moral power and people, I think, do not know how to oppose its hypocricy.

At the same time the conservative Right is now going to be severely tested. Conservatism, if it is Neo-Conservatism, has inflicted tremendous damage on the Republic through these unwise and deathly wars (and no one has much to say about the death inflicted on the countries that were invaded, a great moral lacuna). It is a false concept that neoconservatism and democratic liberalism are opposed. They both have functioned and continue to function at the very seat of power. The question is: What now? I think there are many minds that are today in a muddle. It is very hard to project even into the near future and to have a sense f what is to come.

The irony. The 'tolerant progressives' are having a big hissy-fit because they didn't get their own way, and Trump voters are being the reasonable ones, calling his wall promises 'metaphorical' and saying they wouldn't be all that bothered if a literal wall never got built 'Progressives' should look at themselves to see why he won. People just get turned off by their hypocrisy and thought-policing.

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:Well, there's this. (A joke I could not resist).

Everyone follows their core, determining narratives. The Radical Left, according to its spokesmen, is plotting its course. For them opposition is a call to unify and to press forward with their particular agenda. What underlies that agenda is in essence the Marxian project. Destabilization, demoralization, attack on traditional forms and on identity. The Left's project in America extends back many years and, to understand its full sweep is not so easy.

The way to bring things to a crisis point is through 'praxis'. That means activity with a specific end in mind. One acts in the present to bring about the conditions of destabilization that enable one to achieve one's social and political goals. If you can't get things through normal channels there is nothing to stop you from overt disruption.

The Left's project is that of converting the US into some form of progressive socialist state it would seem. In this last cycle of time everyone has noticed the open collusion between the media and the Democratic Party/state apparatus. To many it became overt and bald. The universities become 'safe-spaces' where free thinking and free speech is controlled through strange, emotionalized mechanisms. Opening your mouth can get you into hot water and lead to losing your job. Politically correct idea has become established as 'normalcy'. This is how it begins.

The resistance which has come from white America is really a factor here. And one cannot put aside the racialist issue. Amy Goodman presents it as 'backlash' to 8 years of a Black president and, I suppose, there is some truth to this. Obama's presidency did not seem to bridge racial and cultural divisions and, in any case, and in America, these are simply realities that have to be taken into consideration. It remains to be seen but, from where I sit, I see the dismantling of the post-war multicultural social and political project. For those on the 'progressive-left' this will seem the end of the world. For those of different orientations it will seem natural, good and inevitable. But remember: The political Left has for some time assumed the mantle of 'righteousness' and its own narratives describe it as 'righteous' and 'good', as if dispensed by Heaven itself. It still holds a great deal of moral power and people, I think, do not know how to oppose its hypocricy.

At the same time the conservative Right is now going to be severely tested. Conservatism, if it is Neo-Conservatism, has inflicted tremendous damage on the Republic through these unwise and deathly wars (and no one has much to say about the death inflicted on the countries that were invaded, a great moral lacuna). It is a false concept that neoconservatism and democratic liberalism are opposed. They both have functioned and continue to function at the very seat of power. The question is: What now? I think there are many minds that are today in a muddle. It is very hard to project even into the near future and to have a sense f what is to come.

Yeah, the selective outrage ruffling the petticoats is kind of funny, just like all the talk about unity.
That red line was crossed a long time ago.

To paraphrase Obama … Elections have consequences, get over it.

Obama fomented any racial divide. He has the mentality of a community organizer, i.e., divisiveness.
Since his legacy lost, now begins the "unity" babble.
Election analysis is showing that Trump did well with the female vote.

Beyonce is one of the favorite “artists” of the POTUS.
He and the first lady have hosted her many times in the White House.
He's down with the folks.

The poetry of Beyonce:
Blow
http://genius.com/Beyonce-blow-lyrics

Walker wrote: Obama fomented any racial divide.
Election analysis is showing that Trump did well with the female vote.

How on earth did he 'foment a racial divide'? You talk such a load of crap. Colour and sex shouldn't even be considered when voting. Every civilised country has regular female 'leaders' and no one bats an eyelid.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Walker wrote: Obama fomented any racial divide.
Election analysis is showing that Trump did well with the female vote.

How on earth did he 'foment a racial divide'? You talk such a load of crap. Colour and sex shouldn't even be considered when voting. Every civilised country has regular female 'leaders' and no one bats an eyelid.

Hereya go. This should get you started.
Remember to read critically.

https://www.google.com/search?client=op ... ial+divide

Walker wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Walker wrote: Obama fomented any racial divide.
Election analysis is showing that Trump did well with the female vote.

How on earth did he 'foment a racial divide'? You talk such a load of crap. Colour and sex shouldn't even be considered when voting. Every civilised country has regular female 'leaders' and no one bats an eyelid.

Hereya go. This should get you started.
Remember to read critically.

https://www.google.com/search?client=op ... ial+divide

Oh please. That must have taken a lot of effort, googling 'Obama foments racial divide'. I'm sure you can find plenty of sites to back up 'smoking is good for your health' too.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Walker wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: How on earth did he 'foment a racial divide'? You talk such a load of crap. Colour and sex shouldn't even be considered when voting. Every civilised country has regular female 'leaders' and no one bats an eyelid.

Hereya go. This should get you started.
Remember to read critically.

https://www.google.com/search?client=op ... ial+divide

Oh please. That must have taken a lot of effort, googling 'Obama foments racial divide'. I'm sure you can find plenty of sites to back up 'smoking is good for your health' too.

VT, you're starting to sound like Bob.

PhilX

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:Well, there's this. (A joke I could not resist).

Everyone follows their core, determining narratives. The Radical Left, according to its spokesmen, is plotting its course. For them opposition is a call to unify and to press forward with their particular agenda. What underlies that agenda is in essence the Marxian project. Destabilization, demoralization, attack on traditional forms and on identity. The Left's project in America extends back many years and, to understand its full sweep is not so easy.

The way to bring things to a crisis point is through 'praxis'. That means activity with a specific end in mind. One acts in the present to bring about the conditions of destabilization that enable one to achieve one's social and political goals. If you can't get things through normal channels there is nothing to stop you from overt disruption.

The Left's project is that of converting the US into some form of progressive socialist state it would seem. In this last cycle of time everyone has noticed the open collusion between the media and the Democratic Party/state apparatus. To many it became overt and bald. The universities become 'safe-spaces' where free thinking and free speech is controlled through strange, emotionalized mechanisms. Opening your mouth can get you into hot water and lead to losing your job. Politically correct idea has become established as 'normalcy'. This is how it begins.

The resistance which has come from white America is really a factor here. And one cannot put aside the racialist issue. Amy Goodman presents it as 'backlash' to 8 years of a Black president and, I suppose, there is some truth to this. Obama's presidency did not seem to bridge racial and cultural divisions and, in any case, and in America, these are simply realities that have to be taken into consideration. It remains to be seen but, from where I sit, I see the dismantling of the post-war multicultural social and political project. For those on the 'progressive-left' this will seem the end of the world. For those of different orientations it will seem natural, good and inevitable. But remember: The political Left has for some time assumed the mantle of 'righteousness' and its own narratives describe it as 'righteous' and 'good', as if dispensed by Heaven itself. It still holds a great deal of moral power and people, I think, do not know how to oppose its hypocricy.

At the same time the conservative Right is now going to be severely tested. Conservatism, if it is Neo-Conservatism, has inflicted tremendous damage on the Republic through these unwise and deathly wars (and no one has much to say about the death inflicted on the countries that were invaded, a great moral lacuna). It is a false concept that neoconservatism and democratic liberalism are opposed. They both have functioned and continue to function at the very seat of power. The question is: What now? I think there are many minds that are today in a muddle. It is very hard to project even into the near future and to have a sense f what is to come.

And yet what has actually caused the resentment is a class issue and Capitalism not a race issue, in that the working class have been left behind and left out of the wealth generated by industrial globalization that both the rich and upper middle-classes of all colours on both Republican and Democrat sides have massively benefited from. The ordinary American(and British) person is earning less wages than they were in the 1970's and it's this that allows the fascist and racist to get their divisive rhetoric heard. Obama's mistake was to ignore class issues but then all Americans shy from such issues as they have the mistaken belief that they live in a classless society.