Philosophy Now Forum

There are experiments you can do uwot by attempts to “know thyself” or have the experience of yourself. For example it is easy to observe limits and relativity of consciousness by experience but most insist on arguing over what others say.

Einstein, Bohr, Schrodinger and Heisenberg referred to the influence of the Vedas on their science. There is no sense in blindly believing or denying. There is just no reason to accuse them of lying.

http://www.newsgram.com/how-scientists- ... -in-vedas/

At first glance, the subjects of science and metaphysics seem to be polar opposites of each other. The pioneers of Quantum Mechanics, however, believed it to be otherwise.
In fact, the founding fathers of Quantum Physics, while formulating their groundbreaking theories, sumptuously dug into annals of Vedic philosophy and found their experiments to be consistent with the knowledge expounded in Vedas.

Danish physicist and Nobel laureate Niels Bohr was fascinated with Vedas. His remark, “I go to the Upanishad to ask questions,” reveals a lot about his respect for the ancient wisdom of India.
Erwin Schrodinger, an Austrian-Irish physicist who also won the Nobel Prize for his famous wave equation, was also a keen proponent of the Vedic thought.

In his book Meine Weltansicht, Schrodinger says, “This life of yours which you are living is not merely a piece of this entire existence, but in a certain sense the whole; only this whole is not so constituted that it can be surveyed in one single glance. This, as we know, is that sacred, mystic formula which is yet really so simple and so clear; tat tvam asi, this is you. Or, again, in such words as “I am in the east and the west, I am above and below, I am this entire world.”
This is nothing but a Mundaka Upanishad mantra which proposes the connectivity of all living beings.

“The unity and continuity of Vedanta are reflected in the unity and continuity of wave mechanics. This is entirely consistent with the Vedanta concept of All in One”, Schrodinger said while referring to each particle in the universe as a wave function.

WERNER HEISENBERG’SUNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE,WHICH STATES THAT WE CANNOT MEASURE BOTH THE POSITION AND MOMENTUM OF A PARTICLE AT THE SAME TIME, IS ALSO A REFLECTION OF THE ADVAITIC APHORISM OF ROPE AND SNAKE;“ WHEN A SNAKE IS SEEN IN THE PLACE OF A ROPE, ONLY THE SNAKE IS SEEN AS REAL. BUT IS IT INDEPENDENTLY REAL?”

Nick_A wrote:...
WERNER HEISENBERG’SUNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE,WHICH STATES THAT WE CANNOT MEASURE BOTH THE POSITION AND MOMENTUM OF A PARTICLE AT THE SAME TIME, ...

According to our resident philosopher of science this is not unusual as apparently we can't measure the position and momentum of any moving object at the same time, something to do with the meaning of "momentum" and "position".

IS ALSO A REFLECTION OF THE ADVAITIC APHORISM OF ROPE AND SNAKE;“ WHEN A SNAKE IS SEEN IN THE PLACE OF A ROPE, ONLY THE SNAKE IS SEEN AS REAL. BUT IS IT INDEPENDENTLY REAL?”

No but I guess that depends upon what you mean by "independent" and "real"?

Nick_A wrote:In fact, the founding fathers of Quantum Physics, while formulating their groundbreaking theories, sumptuously dug into annals of Vedic philosophy and found their experiments to be consistent with the knowledge expounded in Vedas.

That is easy to say, but do you have an example of any of them performing such an experiment?

Nick_A wrote:Danish physicist and Nobel laureate Niels Bohr was fascinated with Vedas. His remark, “I go to the Upanishad to ask questions,” reveals a lot about his respect for the ancient wisdom of India.

Where did he say this?

Nick_A wrote:Erwin Schrodinger, an Austrian-Irish physicist who also won the Nobel Prize for his famous wave equation, was also a keen proponent of the Vedic thought.

You are over egging this to the point of absurdity; it is true that Schrodinger was interested in eastern philosophy, but you really need to give concrete examples of any of the pioneers of quantum mechanics sumptuously mining Vedic philosophy. Otherwise, me old china, it's just blind belief.

Nick_A wrote:WERNER HEISENBERG’SUNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE,WHICH STATES THAT WE CANNOT MEASURE BOTH THE POSITION AND MOMENTUM OF A PARTICLE AT THE SAME TIME, IS ALSO A REFLECTION OF THE ADVAITIC APHORISM OF ROPE AND SNAKE;“ WHEN A SNAKE IS SEEN IN THE PLACE OF A ROPE, ONLY THE SNAKE IS SEEN AS REAL. BUT IS IT INDEPENDENTLY REAL?”

Can you explain what you understand by Heisenberg and how it relates to mistaking a piece of rope for a snake?

Think whatever you like but it is not up to me to search for quotes for people who don't care. For example:

The main reason that we oriented this episode of Cosmos towards India is because of that wonderful aspect of Hindu cosmology which first of all gives a time-scale for the Earth and the universe — a time-scale which is consonant with that of modern scientific cosmology. We know that the Earth is about 4.6 billion years old, and the cosmos … is something like 10 billion years old. The Hindu tradition has a day and night of Brahma in this range, somewhere in the region of 8.4 billion years.

It is the only ancient religious tradition on the Earth which talks about the right time-scale … people have the sense that what is natural is for the universe to be a few thousand years old, and that billions is indwelling, and no one can understand it. The Hindu concept is very clear. Here is a great world culture which has always talked about billions of years.

Finally, the many billion year time-scale of Hindu cosmology is not the entire history of the universe … there is the idea of an infinite cycle of births and deaths and an infinite number of universes.

— Carl Sagan

Modern science cannot prove a kalpa as a measure of time but it can admit that it doesn't know how to build the great pyramid of Giza. Perhaps some ancients had a greater knowledge of both science and the essence of religion that our psychological defenses have made us closed to.

So Carl Sagan is pointing out there that only one of the world's great religions is in the right ball park regarding the age of the universe itself. Therefore we can rule out all the others as sources of scientific input. If there turns out to be something scientifically implausible in the one remaining religion (say for instance some claim that the universe was churned out of milk or something) then we are done and can close this foolish subject.

I'm fairly sure the only mystery of the pyramids is how they got built back then. And even that isn't particularly mysterious, there was plenty of available technology and manpower to move stones. If we wished to add to the collection, we could do so, not a problem.

Tell me how Stonehenge was built beginning around 3100BC. How were such stones moved and placed by ancient people science believe inhabited the day? Humility is definitely not a quality of atheism.

The biggest of Stonehenge's stones, known as sarsens, are up to 30 feet (9 meters) tall and weigh 25 tons (22.6 metric tons) on average. It is widely believed that they were brought from Marlborough Downs, a distance of 20 miles (32 kilometers) to the north.

Some guys pushed them.
Next?

Some guys pushed them.

So you believe in the gods. Hercules asked some friendly gods to help mankind so they got together and moved the stones. Well it is a step in the right direction. You are moving towards the ONE GOD.

Nope. Those rocks might have moved around gods or aliens or prayer and chanting. But more likely they were just pushed by some people.
Next?

Nick_A wrote:Think whatever you like but it is not up to me to search for quotes for people who don't care.

Well, since you see fit to quote Carl Sagan, here's another of his:
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Nick_A wrote:Perhaps some ancients had a greater knowledge of both science and the essence of religion that our psychological defenses have made us closed to.

Perhaps they did. Perhaps gods did it. Perhaps Merlin did it. Perhaps aliens did it. Perhaps elephants have only recently lost the power of speech and were persuaded to help by the promise of 40 virgin lady elephants in the afterlife. It isn't my psychological defences that have made me closed to any of the above, it is the fact that there is no evidence. If there is any psychological defence at work, it may be your projection. It seems to me that you are content to believe in stories that you find pleasing. You then project this attitude on to everyone else, so that stories are believed or denied for aesthetic, rather than scientific, or more broadly empirical reasons. Just a hunch, as it's not my field, but it has a pleasing plausibility, so unless you can provide evidence to the contrary, I shall probably believe it.

Nick_A wrote:Tell me how Stonehenge was built beginning around 3100BC. How were such stones moved and placed by ancient people science believe inhabited the day? Humility is definitely not a quality of atheism.

The biggest of Stonehenge's stones, known as sarsens, are up to 30 feet (9 meters) tall and weigh 25 tons (22.6 metric tons) on average. It is widely believed that they were brought from Marlborough Downs, a distance of 20 miles (32 kilometers) to the north.

The henge was built over generations. The big stones came a long way. It is only your ignorance of ancient technology which makes you ask this stupid question. The means have been practically demonstrated again and again, with stone tools and wood tech.
The Bronze age was well established by the time of the large Sarsen bluestones placement, and there may well be some benefits traded with Europe in metal technology that further helped construction.

Nothing to see here; move on; move along.

Hobbes I can just see you and 100 atheists partaking in the scientific experiments which begins with the hypothesis that we will place a 25 to stone on top of two tall stones.

Then you have the problem of Coral Castle

http://coralcastle.com/

We invite you to tour our sculpture garden in stone, built by one man, Edward Leedskalnin. From 1923 to 1951, Ed single-handedly and secretly carved over 1,100 tons of coral rock, and his unknown process has created one of the world's most mysterious accomplishments. Open every day, the Coral Castle Museum welcomes visitors from around the world to explore this enchanting South Florida destination.

How was a 5' man capable of moving all this coral rock without notice? We don't know. The trouble with blind deniers is that they cannot accept that there may be interactions of universal laws that only a few are aware of.

They have a whole magical kingdom that nobody can explain at Disneyland too.

But we know how Disneyland was built. No secret there. Why descend into denial? A 5' man was able to build an enormous stone structure without notice. A reasonable person will wonder how it could be done. A denier will wait until someone shows them. Until then the only thing worth pondering for the denier is Kim Kardashian's behind and how to battle with blind believers.

Nick_A wrote:Hobbes I can just see you and 100 atheists partaking in the scientific experiments which begins with the hypothesis that we will place a 25 to stone on top of two tall stones. ...

Soil ramps/mounds, wooden levers, woodworking, etc were all around at the time. This guys adds a few nice touches, i.e. enclosing them in wooden 'barrels'.
http://www.stonehenge.tv/roller.html

No idea what 'Gods' have got to do with Engineering and I think you do our ancestors and injustice with all this mumbo-jumbo.

Then you have the problem of Coral Castle

We invite you to tour our sculpture garden in stone, built by one man, Edward Leedskalnin. From 1923 to 1951, Ed single-handedly and secretly carved over 1,100 tons of coral rock, and his unknown process has created one of the world's most mysterious accomplishments. ...

What unknown process? Carving and sculpting have been very well known for millennia and given it took him 28 years I think it pretty feasible as whilst there might be 1,100 tons of coral he didn't have to carve that amount in weight.

"If anyone ever questioned Ed about how he moved the blocks of coral, Ed would only reply that he understood the laws of weight and leverage well."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_Castle