Page 5 of 7
Re: Do atheists freely choose Hell?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 2:34 am
by Skip
Be an interesting act on So You Think You Can Dance. Not a day sooner!
Re: Do atheists freely choose Hell?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 3:04 am
by Melchior
Obvious Leo wrote:Skip wrote:I never, ever do the big rocks! Or the cat in the box or the thumbnail of a giant.
I'm pleased to hear it, Skip. As I see it this leaves only the minor matter of the angels on the head of a pin as a question yet to be resolved. At this stage I am yet to commit to a firm position on this matter but you may rest assured that I am giving it my deepest consideration. I'll keep you posted on developments.
You
must change the timing belt at the recommended intervals!
Re: Do atheists freely choose Hell?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 11:01 am
by attofishpi
ReliStuPhD wrote:2. The consequences of disbelief are clear (Hell)
Not sure that you believe that point. But it is absurd.
Re: Do atheists freely choose Hell?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 2:26 pm
by Melchior
attofishpi wrote:ReliStuPhD wrote:2. The consequences of disbelief are clear (Hell)
Not sure that you believe that point. But it is absurd.
So I checked everything for oil leaks and of course valve cover needs changed(will do when I'm free). Also the piston rings were ruled out due to no smoke whether white or blue from the tailpipe. It then brings me to the turbo, is it possible the turbo is shooting oil out through the exhaust regardless of no smoke? Maybe in hard acceleration? Possibly the seal is bad? I have a 05 1.8t awm b5.5 wagon btw. Also no loss of power might I add. PLEASE HAS ANYBODY GONE THOUGH THIS AND FIXED IT???
Re: Do atheists freely choose Hell?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 3:07 pm
by ReliStuPhD
attofishpi wrote:ReliStuPhD wrote:2. The consequences of disbelief are clear (Hell)
Not sure that you believe that point. But it is absurd.
The answers to both points are in the original post.
Re: Do atheists freely choose Hell?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 3:13 pm
by Melchior
ReliStuPhD wrote:attofishpi wrote:ReliStuPhD wrote:2. The consequences of disbelief are clear (Hell)
Not sure that you believe that point. But it is absurd.
The answers to both points are in the original post.
How much oil are you losing? It'll never be zero, especially on a turbocharged engine. Miles per quart lost... Note that VW rather humorously states up to a quart per 1000 miles is "normal." Also, you can lose a fair amount out the exhaust without smoke, due to the catalytic converter.
Re: Do atheists freely choose Hell?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 3:25 pm
by ReliStuPhD
Melchior wrote:Note that VW rather humorously states up to a quart per 1000 miles is "normal."
Do they really?
Re: ahem
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 3:29 pm
by Greatest I am
ReliStuPhD wrote:Greatest I am wrote:Then that would show a vengeful God who lashes out without a just cause and shows that he has no moral sense.
Well, that's sort of the question, though, isn't it? If, as the Christian holds, the atheist
has received a clear indication but has actively dismissed it, is that a God with no moral sense. It's sort of like someone who moves to Oklahoma and, in building their house opts not to build a tornado shelter. Their neighbors warn them that it's important, but they look at the historical records and find that a tornado hasn't been through that area in over 300 years. What then happens when the tornado does come through and they don't have a shelter? That's not a perfect analogy by any means, but I think it helps capture the "I've deliberately chosen not to do X because I just think it's likely that Y will ever be an issue."
So anyway, that's how it goes. As I've said, I'm not personally convinced, but I figured it was worth a go anyway.
Greatest I am wrote:To one who seeks a good God, as we all should, that would disqualify him as a good God and thus he cannot exist.
This doesn't hold, but I can certainly understand your position. So while it's one I somewhat share, I know it's not inherently true.
How so? Do you seek only a partially good God?
To your first.
Oklahoma is real and has real weather. What comes from the Gods of the religions is not fro a real God.
Regards
DL
Re: ahem
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 3:42 pm
by ReliStuPhD
Greatest I am wrote:ReliStuPhD wrote:Greatest I am wrote:To one who seeks a good God, as we all should, that would disqualify him as a good God and thus he cannot exist.
This doesn't hold, but I can certainly understand your position. So while it's one I somewhat share, I know it's not inherently true.
How so? Do you seek only a partially good God?
You're confusing what I might be seeking with what I hold to be necessarily true. It is not
necessarily true that a God who consigns people who disbelief to Hell as a result of their choice has no moral sense and is not good. That is simply your position (though I think it's a good one).
Greatest I am wrote:Oklahoma is real and has real weather. What comes from the Gods of the religions is not fro a real God.
But remember, the point of this post is to argue the topic as if the Christian is right. That is, is their point correct if they're right about God. You've already agreed it would be, so in that respect, the OK example applies (but only for the sake of argument).
Re: Do atheists freely choose Hell?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:13 pm
by Melchior
ReliStuPhD wrote:Melchior wrote:Note that VW rather humorously states up to a quart per 1000 miles is "normal."
Do they really?
My Passat GLX V6 uses about 1 quart per 2000 miles. It has 130K miles on it, and it is well taken care of. Just top it off and keep track of how much is being consumed. Up to 1 qt per 1000 miles is considered within spec. Only if it is in excess of that should you be concerned.
Re: Do atheists freely choose Hell?
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:35 pm
by Hobbes' Choice
ReliStuPhD wrote:
1. God "clearly" reveals 'himself' to all humans, but does not compel belief
2. The consequences of disbelief are clear (Hell)
3. Atheists nevertheless freely choose not to believe.
4. Atheists freely choose Hell.
.
What a sad waste of a brain, to go through this nonsense.
1. God does not clearly reveal himself. There are many versions; some include salvation, some punishment, some neither some both.
2. Which god/gods; system of belief are atheists supposed to reject today to make your thought experiment worthy?
3. There is no "nevertheless". Your conclusion is meaningless and without merit.
4. Theism does not imply either heaven or hell, not together nor separately..
This thread is just a thin cover for RelStuPhD's fears in adopting a system of belief which guarantees his salvation.
It has NOTHING to do with Atheism, or atheists.
The only thing that can be concluded from this thread is that RelStuPhD has chosen to convince himself that he is immortal.
Re:
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:38 pm
by Hobbes' Choice
henry quirk wrote:"If Christians are right, and their God does exist, do atheists choose Hell by disbelieving?"
Yep.
Rubbish.
Their disbelief includes Hell and Heaven. So no they have not chosen Hell. It does not matter a rat's arse if Christians are right.
Atheists have chosen not to believe in any god or gods; it's a negation not a positive choice of something else.
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:55 pm
by henry quirk
Missing the point, Hobbe.
If Christians are right then I'm wrong, yes?
If Christian theology is right, then -- as an atheist -- I'm gonna burn, yes?
That is: if god exists, and if god is the Christian god, then all my assertions of 'no god, no heaven, no hell' mean diddly squat. God would judge me and sentence me and, as I'm an atheist, that means I burn.
'If', Hobbe...'if'.
Re:
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:58 pm
by Melchior
henry quirk wrote:Missing the point, Hobbe's.
If Christians are right then I'm wrong, yes?
If Christian theology is right, then -- as an atheist -- I'm gonna burn, yes?
That is: if god exists, and if god is the Christian god, then all my assertions of 'no god, no heaven, no hell' mean diddly squat. God would judge me and sentence me and, as I'm an atheist, that means I burn.
‘If’, Hobbes…’if’.
Speaking of burning,
Just watch that you don't burn too much oil. By which I mean more than 1 qt per 1000 miles.
Re:
Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 5:28 pm
by David Handeye
henry quirk wrote:Missing the point, Hobbe.
If Christians are right then I'm wrong, yes?
If Christian theology is right, then -- as an atheist -- I'm gonna burn, yes?
That is: if god exists, and if god is the Christian god, then all my assertions of 'no god, no heaven, no hell' mean diddly squat. God would judge me and sentence me and, as I'm an atheist, that means I burn.
'If', Hobbe...'if'.
Yes.