Philosophy Now Forum

bobevenson wrote: At any point in time, total property within the USA has a certain value, and that value determines the amount of total money available, which the government will monitor and take whatever necessary monetary action is needed to bring the two into alignment.

If the government, or any organisation, decides the value of things, it's not a free market.
Does the ability to do work have any value?

tillingborn wrote:

bobevenson wrote: At any point in time, total property within the USA has a certain value, and that value determines the amount of total money available, which the government will monitor and take whatever necessary monetary action is needed to bring the two into alignment.

If the government, or any organisation, decides the value of things, it's not a free market.
Does the ability to do work have any value?

The Free market is an artifact of government control as stated by professor John Gray at the London School of Economics. No pure Free Market exists but a misunderstanding of the "free market" is common place.
Bobaloola misunderstands it and so do you.

a Shark wrote:The Free market is an artifact of government control ...

Bobaloola misunderstands it and so do you.

Quite possibly, it's not really my field. Can you support this claim with evidence?

a Shark wrote:Your difficulty here is in trying to uphold a judgment based on no academic or real world experience in the field of economics.

That's like saying Albert Einstein was trying to uphold a judgment based on no academic or real world experience in the field of physics.

tillingborn wrote:

bobevenson wrote: At any point in time, total property within the USA has a certain value, and that value determines the amount of total money available, which the government will monitor and take whatever necessary monetary action is needed to bring the two into alignment.

If the government, or any organisation, decides the value of things, it's not a free market.
Does the ability to do work have any value?

It doesn't matter whether it's a piece of artwork or a house, authoritative estimated values are made all the time, my friend. Labor, such as a sports performance, can be considered as property with a shelf life of zero. Otherwise, labor contributes to the value of property.

a Shark wrote:

tillingborn wrote:

bobevenson wrote: At any point in time, total property within the USA has a certain value, and that value determines the amount of total money available, which the government will monitor and take whatever necessary monetary action is needed to bring the two into alignment.

If the government, or any organisation, decides the value of things, it's not a free market.
Does the ability to do work have any value?

The Free market is an artifact of government control as stated by professor John Gray at the London School of Economics. No pure Free Market exists but a misunderstanding of the "free market" is common place.
Bobaloola misunderstands it and so do you.

When it comes to purity, Ivory soap is 99 and 44/100% pure, so that's good enough for me.

tillingborn wrote:

a Shark wrote:The Free market is an artifact of government control ...

Bobaloola misunderstands it and so do you.

Quite possibly, it's not really my field. Can you support this claim with evidence?

If its not your field then why are you ruminating about it.

bobevenson wrote:

a Shark wrote:Your difficulty here is in trying to uphold a judgment based on no academic or real world experience in the field of economics.

That's like saying Albert Einstein was trying to uphold a judgment based on no academic or real world experience in the field of physics.

Unfortunately for you Einstein was a one in a trillion genius and you are not.
When Einstein wrote he theory of relativity he submitted it to the physics establishment and they recognized his genius.
If you think you are a genius with a new economic system then you can submit it
to publishers but you will have to support the work with math and statistics .

a Shark wrote:Einstein was a one in a trillion genius and you are not.

A prophet, of course, beats even higher odds, thank you very much.

When it comes to purity, Ivory soap is 99 and 44/100% pure, so that's good enough for me.

No one of any sense could be against the workings of the free market vis a vis
the planned society.
The question of the unfettered market is the extent to which it has implications
for eroding the quality of life in favor of profit motive.
For example you have stated that anyone should be able to conduct business as
they like so long as it does not impact on others.
The government control element of the free market has exactly that function.
The Glass Steagall Act was a government control aimed at ensuring a sensible
equilibrium in the drift of market forces.
When it was repealed and the free market asserted itself in a cavalier way it
destroyed the world's economy including the UK .
So now we are all fucking broke thanks to that Asshole Bill Clinton and his banker friends.
The problem of government control ,on the other foot, is exemplified by the European Union where these assholes do the opposite.
They have a rule for everything and if they can stop someone making
a living then they will do it.
You are right about Europe ; it is a fuck-up.
It is jobs for the boys. All the failed politicians get a job
in Europe pushing paper around and getting paid huge sums
for fucking people up.

a Shark wrote:For example you have stated that anyone should be able to conduct business as they like so long as it does not impact on others. The government control element of the free market has exactly that function.

I'm sorry, but I beg to differ with you. Just one simple example: in any U.S. city, if you want to start a taxicab business, you need an extremely expensive license, if it's available at all. You can't just drive your car down the street and pick up fares. The government prohibits free enterprise.

bobevenson wrote:

a Shark wrote:Einstein was a one in a trillion genius and you are not.

A prophet, of course, beats even higher odds, thank you very much.

Here is my advice, for a career as a prophet ,based on the best of historical prophets

1. Promise all kinds of shit when your followers die. Give them 72 virgins
plus the garden of eden and as many fucking apples as they can pluck off the trees.
2. Be vague about the details of everything you say and make sure most of
your proclamations have a double meaning that, effectively , pleases everyone.
3. Never claim to be a prophet , simply imply it ,in the most abstract sense,
such as " I was sent here to do my father's work"
4. Be careful not to end up getting shot to pieces by the Feds when they eventually raid your "church" looking for cannabis . (and the moral of that story is in, Jesus, Socrates
and David Koresh. The government wants to be in control and does not trust prophets.

bobevenson wrote:

a Shark wrote:For example you have stated that anyone should be able to conduct business as they like so long as it does not impact on others. The government control element of the free market has exactly that function.

I'm sorry, but I beg to differ with you. Just one simple example: in any U.S. city, if you want to start a taxicab business, you need an extremely expensive license, if it's available at all. You can't just drive your car down the street and pick up fares. The government prohibits free enterprise.

You dont essentially differ with me. The question here is the subjective nature of what
should be controlled. As when Glass Steagall was removed it was on the basis of a subjective claim that free market forces could take care of business without an imposed
level of control.
In the case of a taxi licence there are many controls asserted and the government
would say they are necessary to maintain order on the streets.
Maybe that is bullshit, but then ,you are the one who needs to make a clean case
for what you consider undue interference.

bobevenson wrote:I'm a prophet only in the spiritual, political and economic realm.

So was Obama