Christianity

[Walker]

JC was not a martyr but a hero. Martyrdom is passive. The idea that Xians ought to passively accept their station in life is what princes and principalities, including rich capitalists, did to the Xian message.

What is a Xian?

[henry quirk]

Xian = Christian.

[Walker]

Xian = Christian.

Oh. I see.

(stage whisper: passive-aggressive disrespect for Christians).

[Belinda]

No, look...just look.

Don't listen to me.

Just look.

I agree Xianity...

No.

Marxism.

I support the right of workers to a fair share of profits. Workers and consumers are more important than profits for owners.

Look at what it has done. Look at what it has done in every single case ever. Just look.

If you do, I need say no more. You'll know.

[Nick_A]

379 pages and still no agreement as to what Christianity is. Is it really so surprising that Christianity, initiating with a conscious source, would devolve so quickly into so may forms of Christendom or man made Christianity appealing to political and personal motives of self justification? Does Christianity remain hidden in the world and passed on through word of mouth to protect its purity? Maybe so and it is obvious why it is necessary.

[Alexis Jacobi]

379 pages and still no agreement as to what Christianity is. Is it really so surprising that Christianity, initiating with a conscious source, would devolve so quickly into so may forms of Christendom or man made Christianity appealing to political and personal motives of self justification? Does Christianity remain hidden in the world and passed on through word of mouth to protect its purity? Maybe so and it is obvious why it is necessary.

And no agreement will be forthcoming.

We are in a cycle of inevitable breakdown of agreements and well within processes of shattering disunity. All conversations, all attempts to convince others of what we see and understand, seem to turn into quicksand. But in order to understand why there can be no agreements now, it must be understood that especially in the early days (the 1st century BC and the first century AD) there was an extraordinary range of those existential/metaphysical models through which we organize our understanding of the world. At that time, perhaps, there was a will to winnow out discordant ideas and funnel things ideologically into ideological structures. But there is nothing like that going on today!

I suppose it might be possible to say that our own age, our own today, mirrors that former *confusion of peoples* and the *confusion of ideas* of those early centuries. Except that today things are even more convoluted and complex. Though today there actually does exist a substantial alternative model in a peculiar form and with a peculiar function that could be called the 'scientific view'. That peculiar model does not so much create a holistic ideology through which people feel that they resolve the difficulties of knowing and of knowledge, and it seems that if it does function as a model (that is, semi-religiously) its function is to operate as an alternative or contradiction to the religious models (such as Christianity, Islam, the religions of the East with their complex mythologies, etc.) But it has no unifying power. And it does seem to tend toward a techno-chemical totalitarian model when terrestrial power is given all emphasis.

Over the course of time you Nick have attempted to clarify 'what Christianity is' by focusing on aspects of it that seem more proper to mysticism or monasticism. The Christianity you define (I believe I must already have said this!) will be of use and relevance to one person out of one thousand and if that one person has made the determination that you have made they would certainly have no need for nor interest in the entire content of this thread!

But the interpretation that you favor, it must be said, was long long ago enunciated by people like Plotinus. Perhaps you will describe this Christianity as a veritable science? Almost like a 'spiritual technology'? Yet examining it, those who read your description would still see it as based in a series of metaphors which, when agreed to and understood, are taken up as a 'belief system' around which the person, the personality and the soul, can live within an interpretation that manages to keep them from being consumed by 'chaos'. It seems to me, therefore, that all interpretive models are 'strategies' to avoid the devastating entrapment within chaos and nihilism.

Still, what we call Christendom is in so many ways part of the foundations of who we are. (Europe is a creation of Christendom). You seem to give that word a negative spin. But to do so has a polemical function, doesn't it? To be critical of what only goes part-way and not all the way. Only lunatics like Kierkegaard (and other rare human types) can go 'all the way' while that 99.9% remain and will always remain in their partial stance. But your criticism is really just a prod in order to stimulate yourself to deepen your own commitments.

[bahman]

379 pages and still no agreement as to what Christianity is. Is it really so surprising that Christianity, initiating with a conscious source, would devolve so quickly into so may forms of Christendom or man made Christianity appealing to political and personal motives of self justification? Does Christianity remain hidden in the world and passed on through word of mouth to protect its purity? Maybe so and it is obvious why it is necessary.

Interesting. How could God fail to convey his message properly?

[henry quirk]

379 pages and still no agreement as to what Christianity is. Is it really so surprising that Christianity, initiating with a conscious source, would devolve so quickly into so may forms of Christendom or man made Christianity appealing to political and personal motives of self justification? Does Christianity remain hidden in the world and passed on through word of mouth to protect its purity? Maybe so and it is obvious why it is necessary.

Interesting. How could God fail to convey his message properly?

Cuz, mebbe, He went about His business quiet-like, never lookin' for fame or fortune. Mebbe He never said diddly to Man. Mebbe all the messages of all the teachers are poop. Mebbe He inscribed His word in each man's soul exactly so none of us would have to go runnin' to shamans, priests, and politcians for counsel. So, mebbe, what we each need to do is: occasionally, put aside all the gadgets and books and whatnot, go into our rooms alone, close the door behind us, sit down, and listen.

[Alexis Jacobi]

. So, mebbe, what we each need to do is: occasionally, put aside all the gadgets and books and whatnot, go into our rooms alone, close the door behind us, sit down, and listen . . .

. . . to Green River at full volume.

(Sorry! The Devil made me do it).

[henry quirk]

Green River at full volume.

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[bahman]

379 pages and still no agreement as to what Christianity is. Is it really so surprising that Christianity, initiating with a conscious source, would devolve so quickly into so may forms of Christendom or man made Christianity appealing to political and personal motives of self justification? Does Christianity remain hidden in the world and passed on through word of mouth to protect its purity? Maybe so and it is obvious why it is necessary.

Interesting. How could God fail to convey his message properly?

Cuz, mebbe, He went about His business quiet-like, never lookin' for fame or fortune. Mebbe He never said diddly to Man. Mebbe all the messages of all the teachers are poop. Mebbe He inscribed His word in each man's soul exactly so none of us would have to go runnin' to shamans, priests, and politcians for counsel.

I know your position henry. I am asking people who are Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc.

So, mebbe, what we each need to do is: occasionally, put aside all the gadgets and books and whatnot, go into our rooms alone, close the door behind us, sit down, and listen.

Listen to what?

[henry quirk]

I know your position henry. I am asking people who are Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc.

In other words: shut up, guy...I ain't talkin' to you.

Listen to what?

Your conscience (His word etched in each man's soul).

[bahman]

I know your position henry. I am asking people who are Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc.

In other words: shut up, guy...I ain't talkin' to you.

Oh no, I didn't mean that.

Listen to what?

Your conscience (His word etched in each man's soul).

I have chaotic impulses. I don't know which impulse is mine and which is others who have influence on my mind. So conscience cannot help me. I told you that I have evil impulses all the time. I don't do evil only because of fear of society!

[henry quirk]

I have chaotic impulses. I don't know which impulse is mine and which is others who have influence on my mind. So conscience cannot help me. I told you that I have evil impulses all the time. I don't do evil only because of fear of society!

Then, mebbe, you ought to go sit, alone, in your room, with the door closed, and listen, just a tad bit more often.

[bahman]

I have chaotic impulses. I don't know which impulse is mine and which is others' who have influence on my mind. So conscience cannot help me. I told you that I have evil impulses all the time. I don't do evil only because of fear of society!

Then, mebbe, you ought to go sit, alone, in your room, with the door closed, and listen, just a tad bit more often.

Ok, I keep your advice.