Philosophy Now Forum

The price of freedom.

Nevertheless, the game is rigged.

Surprise!

In cases of co-morbidity at death, coronavirus takes the rap.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:41 pm The price of freedom.

Nevertheless, the game is rigged.

Surprise!

In cases of co-morbidity at death, coronavirus takes the rap.

What the fuck has the US got to do with freedom?

Land of the free, home of the brave. Learn it, live it, love it.

However, that's the wrong question. It's a tired old path, old horse. Corona corona is new and fresh.

Here's three right questions.


1. What demographic exhibits co-morbidities?

2. Why the need to rig the game?

3. What is the evidence for rigging the game?


Go forth and answer them, empirically or rationally, spread your light of wisdom upon the world.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:33 pm The covid olympics - I thought the US would do well at this olympics - such an unstructured "democracy"

Confirmed Cases by Country/Region/Sovereignty
324,052 US
130,759 Spain
128,948 Italy
98,765 Germany
90,864 France
82,602 China
58,226 Iran
48,406 United Kingdom
27,069 Turkey
21,100 Switzerland
19,691 Belgium
17,953 Netherlands
14,493 Canada
12,051 Austria
11,278 Portugal

But the US has many times the population Spain and Italy.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:51 pm Land of the free, home of the brave. Learn it, live it, love it.

THE most incarcerated population PER CAPITA on the planet.

Land of hypocrisy, home of the hollywood-machine false bravery. You lived it, you are all brain washed by it, of course you love it because your destiny is idiocracy.

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:51 pm However, that's the wrong question. It's a tired old path, old horse. Corona corona is new and fresh.

Here's three right questions.


1. What demographic exhibits co-morbidities?

2. Why the need to rig the game?

3. What is the evidence for rigging the game?


Go forth and answer them, empirically or rationally, spread your light of wisdom upon the world.

Well, you spout as much logic and rationale as a brussel sprout.

What R U actually talking about - rigging the game? You think the US might have been framed here? - fuk - making of another hollywood blockbuster.

...US really seem to blur the lines between what is real and what is bollocks. WWE for example - really - WTF!! Grown men watch that shit over there!

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:56 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:33 pm The covid olympics - I thought the US would do well at this olympics - such an unstructured "democracy"

Confirmed Cases by Country/Region/Sovereignty
324,052 US
130,759 Spain
128,948 Italy
98,765 Germany
90,864 France
82,602 China
58,226 Iran
48,406 United Kingdom
27,069 Turkey
21,100 Switzerland
19,691 Belgium
17,953 Netherlands
14,493 Canada
12,051 Austria
11,278 Portugal

But the US has many times the population Spain and Italy.

Spain and Italy were weeks ahead in the contagion. US is gone.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:39 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:03 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:32 pm

Sure we can agree that viruses mutate within the host, but as far as I am aware, completely new viruses within a man - don't just ping into existence within a man

Wrong.
The source of all viruses originate in hosts, as they are modifications of the most DNA/RNA complex. Loose DNA is all around us, and that pretty much make Viruses the most common and numerous "living things". In some respects they do not even classify as living things since they can have no independent life cycle or reproduction without their host or closely genetically similar host.
The fact is that there is nothing at all special about Wuhan meat market. Most viruses are caught whilst packed into public transport, or at the cinema, theatre of restaurant.
Anywhere people congregate there is a chance of infection.
If viruses had to rely on cross species transmission we would be basically disease free most of the time.

You are a muppet.

I am talking about viruses that CAUSE the host species health issues. Viruses don't cause an issue within the host species until they first go zoonotic,

You are just so full of sh1t.
Utter palpable nonsense.
You are a waste of oxygen.
You claim viruses can only come from other species. Where so those originate?

When dealing with figures you have to realise a couple of things.
NO ONE knows how many cases.
NO ONE knows how many are infected.
NO ONE knows how many deaths are attributable to COVID -19.

All figures are gathered from different country's different methods.
No two countries have to same stats gathering regimes
No two countries have the same testing regimes.
No two countries have the same levels of penetration of testing nor protocols.

The stats are gathered from a mediocre number of tests which have at least two main differences either presence of the virus itself, or presence of antibodies.

Not all who have died of COVID 19 have been tested.
Not all who have been infected have been tested
Not all who have recovered have been tested.

Some health services, such as the USA, where there are millions uninsured, and at least half a million homeless may well die of COVID=19 and NEVER become a statistic.

Where testing is patchy people dying of respiratory illness may well be attributed to COVID-19 when they have died of something else.

It is probably more likely that the differential number are less to do with the virus and the host country's vulnerabilities, and more to do with the degree and accuracy of testing.

I can't wait for the cheap nationalistic conclusions of most of the idiots on the Forum when comparing the gross numbers.

It's worth adding that the virus is mutating all the time. Only a tiny number of these mutations will be viable, and fewer still will produce a dangerous difference.
When looking at the numbers we could also be looking at slightly different strains emerging.
There is other evidence that is now looking into susceptibility due to the drug regime of patients; those with high blood pressure are more contraindicated with ACE inhibitors and Beta Blockers than those taking Calcium channel blockers. The common prescription regime in different countries could offer some idea of differences in fatality.


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

IF the results from China are any thing to go by, then more and stricter lockdown is necessary.
But can they be trusted at all?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... try/china/

I don't understand why some people seem to think that focusing on certain supposed numbers/measurements (such as comparisons to flu deaths) is somehow applicable for "putting it all in perspective", when it is obvious that there are so many additional and significant and far-reaching aspects to consider.

Is it that such people are trying to downplay/control reality by utilizing a limited view that they think they can wrap their heads around?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:00 am I don't understand why some people seem to think that focusing on certain supposed numbers/measurements (such as comparisons to flu deaths) is somehow applicable for "putting it all in perspective", when it is obvious that there are so many additional and significant and far-reaching aspects to consider.

Is it that such people are trying to downplay/control reality by utilizing a limited view that they think they can wrap their heads around?

Yes, when the entire planet shuts down to protect what is essentially a handful of the old and sick.
What if children were the primary victims? Would there have been all this fuss? I doubt it. The media is controlled by old fucks like Rupert Murdoch. Most of the wealth and power in the world is in the hands of the old.
It's always the young who are made to pay for the old. Why should they?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:38 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:31 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:19 am

Take 2 million then. 10% would be 200K. 1% would be 20K. 3% would be 60K. So I suppose it would be about 3%, not 5.
I can't work it out exactly. Forgotten how

I used an on-line percentage calulator. I asked, what percentage of 8 billion is 64,549. The answer is .0008%.

Now, sure we can focus on various (sub)populations, like Italy, and you'll get 3 or 7 or 10%. But that percentage is misleading cuz dumb folks (not you, veg) think it applies across the board (which it doesn't).

In the end, the true global measure of this virus is total (or total current) deaths as a percentage of total population.

The most logical percentage would be percentage of deaths of those infected. Not percentage of the entire world population. That's just silly, unless the whole population has been infected.

correct! tanks for the logic here.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:56 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:38 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:31 am

I used an on-line percentage calulator. I asked, what percentage of 8 billion is 64,549. The answer is .0008%.

Now, sure we can focus on various (sub)populations, like Italy, and you'll get 3 or 7 or 10%. But that percentage is misleading cuz dumb folks (not you, veg) think it applies across the board (which it doesn't).

In the end, the true global measure of this virus is total (or total current) deaths as a percentage of total population.

The most logical percentage would be percentage of deaths of those infected. Not percentage of the entire world population. That's just silly, unless the whole population has been infected.

Workin' with just deaths among the infected you get 5% but this too is misleading. We don't know how many folks are actually, or were actually, infected. Like Avery sez in his piece...

as i said earlier, it is assumed 3/4 are asymtomatic while infected.

so.....................

5-percent X 1/4 = the death rate.

1.25 percent.

gaffo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:43 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:38 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:31 am

I used an on-line percentage calulator. I asked, what percentage of 8 billion is 64,549. The answer is .0008%.

Now, sure we can focus on various (sub)populations, like Italy, and you'll get 3 or 7 or 10%. But that percentage is misleading cuz dumb folks (not you, veg) think it applies across the board (which it doesn't).

In the end, the true global measure of this virus is total (or total current) deaths as a percentage of total population.

The most logical percentage would be percentage of deaths of those infected. Not percentage of the entire world population. That's just silly, unless the whole population has been infected.

correct! tanks for the logic here.

Still not accurate though, because most people only get mild or even no sypmtoms and don't get tested. If the true number of cases were known, then the percentage of deaths goes down.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:21 am

gaffo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:43 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:38 am

The most logical percentage would be percentage of deaths of those infected. Not percentage of the entire world population. That's just silly, unless the whole population has been infected.

correct! tanks for the logic here.

Still not accurate though, because most people only get mild or even no sypmtoms and don't get tested. If the true number of cases were known, then the percentage of deaths goes down.

since 3/4 infected have no symptoms they do not know they are infected and so are not tested.

so i think my number is a reasonable assumption of fatality.

the only way to get an accurate num is via tested vs dead, but the tested must be the full infected number, and its not.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:00 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:39 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:03 pm

Wrong.
The source of all viruses originate in hosts, as they are modifications of the most DNA/RNA complex. Loose DNA is all around us, and that pretty much make Viruses the most common and numerous "living things". In some respects they do not even classify as living things since they can have no independent life cycle or reproduction without their host or closely genetically similar host.
The fact is that there is nothing at all special about Wuhan meat market. Most viruses are caught whilst packed into public transport, or at the cinema, theatre of restaurant.
Anywhere people congregate there is a chance of infection.
If viruses had to rely on cross species transmission we would be basically disease free most of the time.

You are a muppet.

I am talking about viruses that CAUSE the host species health issues. Viruses don't cause an issue within the host species until they first go zoonotic,

You are just so full of sh1t.
Utter palpable nonsense.
You are a waste of oxygen.

Your only contribution to planet Earth is coming soon, when you turn into compost.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:03 pm You claim viruses can only come from other species. Where so those originate?

You muppet - that IS NOT WHAT I AM SAYING. READ AGAIN idiot..