Philosophy Now Forum

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:04 pm Where else can one read of child abuse defended with such passion?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:25 pm Certain observation are too offensive to endure and must be eliminated. If I were really just hostile and nasty it would be accepted. But speaking the truth of the human condition and the harm done by avoidance is too offensive too arouse anything other than secular intolerance. Calmly puncturing a puffed up ego defending the undefensible cannot be acceptable for secular philosophy which advocates self esteem rather than opening to the truth of the human condition. Self importance over humility as a psychological ideal. It is the progressive way and whatever opposes it cannot be allowed.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:04 pm you are sorely getting on everyone's nerves.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:54 pm
He's not getting on my nerves.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:03 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:54 pm
He's not getting on my nerves.

Well he's getting on mine more than enough to make up for that.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:15 pm I can see why it would get on your nerves.

That is because you love to express cynicism so admire expressions of secular intolerance.

I point out the objective harm done by secular intolerance which doesn't support the joys of cynicism.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:14 pm Anything intelligently questioning the divinity of the great Beast where secularism including interfith is dominant is a no no

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:33 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:14 pm Anything intelligently questioning the divinity of the great Beast where secularism including interfith is dominant is a no no

Okay then, say something intelligent about interfaith.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:22 pm
Interfaith is just taking the secular aspects from several religions and combing them under the banner of religion. It is a nice way to have a chat with different people and maybe pinch a few behinds nut without the spirit which is the essence of religion

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:03 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:54 pm
He's not getting on my nerves.

Well he's getting on mine more than enough to make up for that.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:25 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:22 pm
Interfaith is just taking the secular aspects from several religions and combing them under the banner of religion. It is a nice way to have a chat with different people and maybe pinch a few behinds nut without the spirit which is the essence of religion

So what sort of society do you approve of? One run on religious principles? Which religion?

SOCIETY AS SACRAMENT

As fatalistic as Weil's political analysis appears on the surface, her intentions are far from morose. Her writings strive to turn us from the false images of the limelight (Plato's Cave) to the quiet beauty of that Light which the darkness cannot overcome. For Weil, the love of God permeates every molecule in creation. But the operations of God's grace transpire in secret, like the chlorophyll which secretly transforms the light of the sun into food for the plant kingdom (a favorite metaphor of Weil's). The kingdom of God is indeed everywhere and thus a cause for constant rejoicing. However, if prestige is synonymous with "social visibility," then the kingdom of God is synonymous with "social invisibility." Christ often referred to the secret nature of the kingdom of heaven as leaven hidden in flour or a treasure hidden in a field (Matt. 13:33,44). The works of the kingdom are omnipresent, yet they are hidden from the world of celebrity. The Father who works in secret, rewards his followers in secret (Matt. 6:18).

Such a line of reasoning does not lead to political despair, but rather to genuine hope. The world is in a constant process of redemption, even though it appears to be lost (if viewed through the six o'clock news). The political effect of Weil's critique is to engender caution toward any type of political fanaticism. Marxist leaders are as prone to delusions of grandeur as are capitalist leaders. The spiritual purpose behind Weil's critique of the Social Beast is to turn our attention away from abstract ideologies and back to flesh and blood individuals, those who normally escape our attention (whether they be family or strangers). As Weil's special vocation was to seek and find the forgotten, she considered the essence of both friendship ,and social justice to be the act of "creative attention." Her favorite parable was the Good Samaritan. The charity portrayed there she regarded as sacramental in character: ……………………………

………………………….For Weil the contingency of human existence allows human beings to fulfill their vocation as "images" (possibly co-creators?) of God. By attending to an individual whose social standing is vastly inferior to our own, we create a "personal" existence for that individual. We invite them to join the human race from which they were barred by affliction. Through the grace of Christ (and only through the grace of Christ) we in effect say to the afflicted "Let light shine out of darkness" (see 2 Cor. 4:6 and Gen. 1:3). Weil writes:

He who treats as equals those who are far below him in strength really makes them a gift of the quality of human beings, of which fate had deprived them. As far as it is possible for a creature, he reproduces the original generosity of the Creator with regard to them." (34)

The spiritual creation of persons reflects the creation of the world.
The proper function of a society is to create the conditions that make this type of encounter possible. (35) Furthermore, a society or tradition should create a sense of continuity or rootedness for the individuals who comprise that society. This sense of personal history provides a feeling of permanence which mirrors the eternity of God. Institutions are like sacraments in that their function is one of mediation -- they mediate between past, present, and future generations. The trick is to accomplish this task without losing the sense of our exile here on earth. Families and societies are symbols of permanence, but not permanence itself. Given the right conditions (which Weil spells out at length in The Need for Roots) society fulfills a sacramental function by symbolizing the divine society of the Trinity. To summarize, society (and personality) can function two ways as idol or as sacrament. Taken only as an end in itself, society functions as the Great Beast increasing human affliction. Viewed as a sacrament, society mirrors that heavenly home which is the source of all creative social and spiritual development on earth.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:08 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:03 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:54 pm
He's not getting on my nerves.

Well he's getting on mine more than enough to make up for that.

He doesn't get on mine because I stopped reading him. All his posts were more or less identical: 'I love Simone..' 'I hate 'atheists'...'...

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:12 pm
Secularists support the idolatry.......and on and on and on.....

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:08 pm All his posts were more or less identical: 'I love Simone..' 'I hate 'atheists'...'...

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:16 pm If a female atheist has a cute behind it can offer partial compensation.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:40 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:16 pm If a female atheist has a cute behind it can offer partial compensation.

You normally go for women whose face looks like a behind.

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