attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:50 am
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:00 pm
attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:42 pm
I think I've pretty much got the ad hominem sorted..to attack something other than the argument at hand - diversionary and as you point out, is not necessarily a personal insult.
Thanks for explaining the Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc, that had me stumped. I tried a search on just propter and I think only in my dictionary! duh.
I think it was you that posted this one a long long time ago..
Did you know the people in Dubai don't like The Flintstones, but the people in Abu Dhabi do..
I'm gonna use that!
Problem is, it's such a good clean joke so suitable for kids, but unfortunatly these days they some don't have a clue about the flintstones. When I was visiting my Nan in 2018 I started telling her that one, I got to the point of saying Flintstones and she turned around at me frowning and snapping.."Well! Why do you think that is then?" ..she's bloody hilarious!! (and possibly slightly racist)
My grandmother "Nanna" was a very tolerant and loveable person, whilst married she even dated a "mixed race" from Jamaica to the horror of her husband.
But when my (American) Dad met her in 1957 he was horrified to hear her use the word "Darkies" for black people.
She meant nothing by it, it was just the everyday parlance of the English of that generation.
These days things have changed.
I am currently listening to a podcast of "The Lost World" of Arthur Conan Doyle. The narrator feels it necessary to warn listeners of certain common place racial words in the text. "Cross Breed", and Negro are used. The negro guide is described as "as large as a horse and about as intelligent", and his "race" has an instinctive hatred of cross breeds.
I do not see "cross breed" as much different to "mixed race", as for my money it is the very idea that people can be so easily divided into "races" that is at the heart of the problem; when it is perfectly obvious from the fact that so-called "races" can happily mix that denies the prejudice that comes with the idea of race in the first place.
Similarly, my grandmother "Nan" actually married (my biological grandfather) who is of a 'mixed race' being Indian and Portuguese mix, so yep could explain my love of curry and tall ships. They separated early on, I had no idea until I was about 17 that who I thought was my grandfather, someone I was very close to was not my
actual grandfather. I only found out when I said to my Mum one day that I felt like travelling around India, and she said, "Why? To go visit your long lost relatives?" !! LMAO! I was rather stumped to say the least, even my older sister knew..I think they must have kept it quiet since I was so close to my Gramps. Well, one looks at oneself rather differently in the mirror from then on, glad I had no racism in me tho-could have been a problem lol.
On a different tack..my great grandmother (my Gramps' mother) used to live in Bignell Wood in the New Forest, previously was occupied by Arthur Conan Doyle. As a nipper I attended her 90th birthday party there, and my cousin and I got rather tiddly for the first time! My parents inherited an antique cabinet that came from there in fact. My father just a couple of years ago pulled out the drawer to show me the craftmanship of the dovetails and as a very skilled carpenter/joiner himself (he made a chest for Mum with 92 dovetails!) stated he was never as skilled so as to match that.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... 135772.jpg
Regarding the entire 'race' thing, it does piss me off that the wookies or the lefties appear to be attempting to wiping history, as if history can be cleaned up. As if, now if you make a film set in the south of US set in the 19C you can't depict black servants - I think I heard Gone with the Wind was cancelled ffs. Tearing down statues imo is wrong - accept history - change the plaque if necessary.
I made a 'joke' up:
Young Billy receives a phone call from the military:-
Military officer:- "Billy, your father has been sent to Baghdad for processing."
Billy:- "What!!!? Dad's dead!!?"
I think it is a big mistake to cast black people in roles that would have been historically impossible, since this is a complete denial that racist existed. On the other hand I think it is a very good idea to cast black people into modern roles where you would not necessarily expect them
because the world definitely is still racist, and it's a great idea for people to see people of all shapes sizes and colours doing all the roles of a modern world.
I watched Wheel of Time recently on AmazonPrime. They cast all the roles as racially/ethnically diverse as possible. Since the world is a fantasy world I can see why. But their culture is medieval, and the chance that they would have had a racially diverse culture was not especially credible; small scale societies would soon even out racial differences to find a new normal. Nonetheless I enjoyed the series even though I think fantasy has to have an internal logic.
And then we come across an isolated farm with a couple of white children that had black parents and the credibility was utterly broken. Annoying, as I felt they were trying to make yet another point about how trendy they are, and trying to TEACH their audience a lesson. Fuck that. They just looked absurd.
Watching drama entails a suspension of disbelief so that you can get absorbed into the story without the truth of the acting and setting being fake. Seeing something stupid like a Roman Centurion with a ROLEX jumps you out of the narrative, back to reality, screwing up your viewing.
As for tearing down statues I have no problem. But in ancient Rome when a memorialised person fell out of favour they would not completely remove the memorial, but they would invoke
damnatio and the name on the monument would be scratched out leaving the list of accolades intact.
So in the short term the person would still be known from his deeds, but the fact that his name was removed would mean that he would be forgotten, but the memorial would continue as evidence of wrongdoing.
I do not think Bristol has room for an statues of slave owners and they remain a complete insult to people of all ethnicities that give a shit. Drag them off to a museum if anyone wants to take them. Maybe you could leave the plinth with the name scratched out and replace with a statue of a triumphant youth holding a hammer and chisel.
Not sure why anyone would want to remake Gone with the Wind the film is of its time, in glorious technicolor and shall remain a monument of cinema. The obsession with remakes such smacks of a complete lack of imagination and creativity.
How about doing a futuristic Gone with the Stars, where a black buy and a white woman fall in love on a war torn planet, the slaves could be robotic, or aliens.
