Philosophy Now Forum

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:16 pm Well you tell me. I've never seen the law of identity breached, nor do I know how that could even look like.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:50 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:16 pm Well you tell me. I've never seen the law of identity breached, nor do I know how that could even look like.

Breached? I've never even seen it satisfied.

Take any object (abstract or concrete) what does it mean for it to be "the same as itself" ?

Which aspect of it is its "sameness with itself" ?

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:06 pm Sameness it not an aspect

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:08 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:06 pm Sameness it not an aspect

Then what is it? What about an object is its "sameness with itself" ?

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:09 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:08 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:06 pm Sameness it not an aspect

Then what is it? What about an object is its "sameness with itself" ?

Sameness is not something about an object

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:13 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:09 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:08 pm
Then what is it? What about an object is its "sameness with itself" ?

Sameness is not something about an object

You keep telling me what sameness isn't.

Are you ever going to tell me what sameness is?

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:15 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:13 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:09 pm
Sameness is not something about an object

You keep telling me what sameness isn't.

Are you ever going to tell me what sameness is?

It's being the same

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:48 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:17 pm <dum dumb fuckery by the dumb dumb fuck>

You don't even have a clue what anything means, you world-class sophist. All you have is anger management issues.

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ChatGPT wrote:Certainly! Let's break down each of these Python code snippets and their outputs:

In [1]: class A: pass

This code defines a class named A with no attributes or methods. It's a simple class with no special functionality.

In [2]: A == A()

In this code, you are comparing the class A to an instance of the class A created using A(). The comparison operator == is used to check if both objects are equal.

Output (Out[2]): False

The output is False because a class and an instance of that class are not considered equal in Python.

In [3]: A() == A()

In this code, you are comparing two instances of the class A, both created using A(). Again, the comparison operator == is used to check if both objects are equal.

Output (Out[3]): False

The output is False because, by default, two different instances of a class are not considered equal unless you define an __eq__ method in the class to specify how equality should be determined.

In [4]: A == A

In this code, you are comparing the class A to itself (i.e., comparing the class object to the class object).

Output (Out[4]): True

The output is True because in Python, when you compare two class objects using ==, they are considered equal if they refer to the same class definition. In this case, both A and A refer to the same class A, so the comparison is True.

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:22 pm yawn

The output is False because, by default, two different instances of a class are not considered equal unless you define an __eq__ method in the class to specify how equality should be determined.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:17 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:15 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:13 pm
You keep telling me what sameness isn't.

Are you ever going to tell me what sameness is?

It's being the same

And now you have to tell me what "being" is too...

It's like you don't know how to use your words or something.

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:26 pm Looks like you simply have no concept of identity, so no matter how I try to circumscribe it you find it unintelligible.

I have NO idea how someone can have no concept of identity. Maybe without abstract thinking, such a concept can't exist, or is it some other quirk of yours?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:24 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:22 pm yawn

We've unlocked a new level of sophistry! Copy/pasting without comprehension.

That bit should confuse you. A lot.
Imagine having two bitwise-identical copies of an object.... and yet their equality is undefined.

The output is False because, by default, two different instances of a class are not considered equal unless you define an __eq__ method in the class to specify how equality should be determined.

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:28 pm And if you create Python B language where the default is True, then you'll get True. Absolutely world shattering.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:27 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:26 pm Looks like you simply have no concept of identity, so no matter how I try to circumscribe it you find it unintelligible.

I have NO idea how someone can have no concept of identity. Maybe without abstract thinking, such a concept can't exist, or is it some other quirk of yours?

You can't communicate your concepts?

That's definitely not a me-problem...

Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:32 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:28 pm And if you create Python B language where the default is True, then you'll get True. Absolutely world shattering.

Shattering? No. It's just a choice. Which is the whole damn point!

What makes one choice "right" and another "wrong" in a moral subjectivist world-view?