Philosophy Now Forum

This is starting to become the brink of disaster now.

https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-evacuat ... e-12983748

Gaza evacuation: Why getting people out in less than 24 hours is 'impossible'

Israel is already bombing south of the line.
Israeli bombs have already killed more Israeli hostages than Hamas. This child was trapped under the rubble for 150 hours. He has no parents.
What is his future?

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:54 pm In doing this the so-called Woke very intensely turn against the Founders of the nation who had ideas about race and civilization that are now intolerable and literally crimethink.

But...
1) there ideas weren't fixed and they left room for change, in fact that was key, in the way they organized the country, and even more importantly
2) there ideas of Europeans would have been and still were after anathema to many of what finally get called European nations and ethnic groups. That very idea of some kind of European commonality was fought against with incredible tenacity between nations and then within nations between religious groups that did not see each other at part of the umbrulla Christianity. Extremely radical ideas and racial/nationality blindness and multicultural wokeness were already in place right from the very begining of the USA. It's only looking back and not thinking at all about all the changes already embodied in what the founders were doing, that we can classify them as somehow traditional. And given how central England was to the formation, the States were coming out of by earlier standand a multiculural society whose language itself mixed two enemy languages, with smatterings of the barbarian Vikings' words tossed in. Amalgam cultures and multiculturalism were already chugging away for a long time and would have looked very odd to the Celts whose semi-civilization would have looked itself very odd to tribal cultures they killed or swallowed.

(that's at least a thousand words, or a hundred thousand)

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 2:47 pm
This child was trapped under the rubble for 150 hours. He has no parents.
What is his future?

I saw some videos of university students tearing down pictures of Israeli children who are dead and missing, because of Hamas.

I think that neither pro-Hamas nor pro-Israel people would tear down that picture you keep posting.

I don't think this observation is rubbish.

I think it's true. A true discovery, based on witnessing, which is of course limited since I haven't run experiments by posting that picture in a university, with a prominent label that it's an Hamas child, to protect it from the vandals.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:43 pm I needed the Rabbi to clarify a few things. Now I feel resolve like never before.

I assume (or at least hope) that you are being sarcastic here.

That Rabbi is a poster boy for the reason why the "old material/spiritual paradigm," which consists of highly insular cultures and religions, is no longer a viable option for humanity.

The unspoken implication of what the Rabbi stated in that clip is that if the bomb-buried baby in the picture that Sculptor uploaded...



...is not willing to completely surrender to the fate that has been violently foisted upon him by those who have stolen his family's home and lands, and imprisoned him in a concentration camp,...

...then the Rabbi feels that the Israeli military has every right to accomplish the task that the first wave of bombs failed to achieve.

And this is coming from an alleged "holy man," for crying out loud, who, btw, idiotically implied that he would not be able to determine if the baby in that picture is a civilian or not.

Unfortunately, unless something truly miraculous occurs, then the only thing that is going to alter the course we are on is the inevitable Armageddon that all of this madness is leading to.
_______

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 2:50 pm
2) there ideas of Europeans would have been and still were after anathema to many of what finally get called European nations and ethnic groups. That very idea of some kind of European commonality was fought against with incredible tenacity between nations and then within nations between religious groups that did not see each other at part of the umbrulla Christianity. Extremely radical ideas and racial/nationality blindness and multicultural wokeness were already in place right from the very begining of the USA. It's only looking back and not thinking at all about all the changes already embodied in what the founders were doing, that we can classify them as somehow traditional. And given how central England was to the formation, the States were coming out of by earlier standand a multiculural society whose language itself mixed two enemy languages, with smatterings of the barbarian Vikings' words tossed in. Amalgam cultures and multiculturalism were already chugging away for a long time and would have looked very odd to the Celts whose semi-civilization would have looked itself very odd to tribal cultures they killed or swallowed.

I appreciated this exposition. Many interesting and valid points. I think I understand what you are getting at.

However, it is still true — judge it how one might — that up to the first part of the 30th century America was and defined itself as White and European. Especially in the 60s the immigration restrictions were altered, and the demographics thereby shifted.

I accept that “America” has set about to define itself anew. But I am unsure if the result will be wholesome.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:38 pm I appreciated this exposition. Many interesting and valid points. I think I understand what you are getting at.

However, it is still true — judge it how one might — that up to the first part of the 30th century America was and defined itself as White and European. Especially in the 60s the immigration restrictions were altered, and the demographics thereby shifted.

Well, sort of. It didn't quite consider Greeks and Italians or the Irish american. At least the other parts that weren't those things and had more power. But even the mix it had Swedes, Germans, French, British, etc. used to be enemy nations with very clear concepts of the temperments and problems with the other groups. And they shared these judgments, which were slowly slipping off, still against certain other Europeans. And the Europeans were, in the beginning of the 20 century still willing to kill the others and organize killing around things like 'those evil Huns', for example. And only the hatred of the evil Huns could get the French and British to grit their teeth and work together again in WW2.

The point being that the idea of we are European, regardless at least of which nation, which ethnicity, which version of Christianity was very fresh and contributed to by the founders, and to generations before that (and after the Founders) this woule have been seen as woke sick multiculturalism though without those phrases. And likely Rome was viewed this way by the groups Rome consider barbarians, since Rome on some level considered itself an idea driven not ethnicity driven enterprise, to the degree it managed that.

I accept that “America” has set about to define itself anew. But I am unsure if the result will be wholesome.

Oh, it's not. Though the founders would have been rolling over in their graves when we made corporations persons and stopped revoking corporate charters. That's multiculturalism on a level that makes woke multiculturalism took conservative. You can't have sex with a corporation and have human babies. It might as well be an alien lifeform, except it's not life. Or some of the changes in banking and finance sectors. Or the complete annexation of goverment oversight by the corporations that it is supposed to oversee. Non-life forms, let alone, non-homo sapiens, let alone non-white Europeans have been handed the keys to the country. The founders were damn well aware of the threats of the giant corporations, like the East India Company, for example, and what a threat they were to culture, nationhood, democracy and so on and they took steps to prevent that power from becoming imbalanced. But unfortunately conservatives have generally not quite seen how corporate culture is another culture and it is not interested in the republic (except as much as it can be used) or democracy or Europeans or anything that gets in its way. It's like a virus.

And right now I do think they was large incursions of immigrants. Not because they are mud races or because they can't participate in democracies, but because it will set people against each other and because these people will need help getting going when the nation has nothing to give and other disruptive motives in the conglomerate power grab that has been happening.

And all the fucking conservatives can blame the liberals and the woke, while they didn't even notice how much they contributed to the actual multiculturalism and weakened all sorts of balances the founders put in to try to keep humans in charge. and much of the right worships people like Reagan who helped set their organisms even more free. There's been this longing for the 50s which completely misses how these organisms changed finance, corporate behavior and power, management labor relations, the media since that time.

Corporate decadence dwarfs all other decadence.

This doesn't mean the current Left is somehow blameless. Hardly.

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:07 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 2:47 pm
This child was trapped under the rubble for 150 hours. He has no parents.
What is his future?

I saw some videos of university students tearing down pictures of Israeli children who are dead and missing, because of Hamas.

Not my question

seeds wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:37 pm And this is coming from an alleged "holy man," for crying out loud, who, btw, idiotically implied that he would not be able to determine if the baby in that picture is a civilian or not.

I have developed a jaundiced view of Orthodox and traditional Judaism. This was the unexpected result of months discussion with IC. Judaism is totally exclusive and separatist. (ICs Christianity is more Jewish than traditionally Christian).

At a foundational level it is violent and condemning — for example of other religious modes and god-concepts. That sort of judgmental stance does have a “positive” aspect — that of differentiation — but it also is the ground of antipathy, conflict and strife.

Those Rabbis (there are many with YouTube channels) seem to me captured by their mythologies. But right now all Israel is captured in dozens of layers of consequence. How this resolves itself is anyone’s guess.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:02 pm Oh, it's not. Though the founders would have been rolling over in their graves when we made corporations persons and stopped revoking corporate charters. That's multiculturalism on a level that makes woke multiculturalism took conservative. You can't have sex with a corporation and have human babies. It might as well be an alien lifeform, except it's not life. Or some of the changes in banking and finance sectors. Or the complete annexation of goverment oversight by the corporations that it is supposed to oversee. Non-life forms, let alone, non-homo sapiens, let alone non-white Europeans have been handed the keys to the country. The founders were damn well aware of the threats of the giant corporations, like the East India Company, for example, and what a threat they were to culture, nationhood, democracy and so on and they took steps to prevent that power from becoming imbalanced. But unfortunately conservatives have generally not quite seen how corporate culture is another culture and it is not interested in the republic (except as much as it can be used) or democracy or Europeans or anything that gets in its way. It's like a virus.

These are very important and relevant points. I agree very much. The so-called American Conservative is often very far from anything actually conserving. And the damage they have done remains invisible to them.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:20 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:07 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 2:47 pm
This child was trapped under the rubble for 150 hours. He has no parents.
What is his future?

I saw some videos of university students tearing down pictures of Israeli children who are dead and missing, because of Hamas.

Not my question

Oh, I see.

Well, that living child has a future to discover, as do we all. It must be a tough little scrapper to survive both the modern womb, and war.

When it hears tales of its early adventures, it may grow up with a sense destiny, and if it finds wisdom in its future, it will be able to release and abandon the energy-chain attached to resentment, until one day resentment is no more.

By gum, that could use an inspirational soundtrack. Airpods make reality soundtracks possible.

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 4:23 pm By gum, that could use an inspirational soundtrack. Airpods make reality soundtracks possible.

You have reduced yourself to ridiculousness over the last weeks.

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 4:23 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:20 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:07 pm
I saw some videos of university students tearing down pictures of Israeli children who are dead and missing, because of Hamas.

Not my question

Oh, I see.

Well, that living child has a future to discover, as do we all. It must be a tough little scrapper to survive both the modern womb, and war.

When it hears tales of its early adventures, it may grow up with a sense destiny, and if it finds wisdom in its future, it will be able to release and abandon the energy-chain attached to resentment, until one day resentment is no more.

By gum, that could use an inspirational soundtrack. Airpods make reality soundtracks possible.

Try and apply your imagination for a change. And get your head out of your arse.
Your ignorance is astonishing through your refusal to look at the basic facts of how Gaza came to be.
Consider this = before the October attacks Isreal had, this year already kidnapped and killed more innocent Palestinians than Hamas did on that day.
History did not start on that day. and 3000 Palesinian children and now dead because of Israeli bombs.

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 4:23 pm
By gum, that could use an inspirational soundtrack. Airpods make reality soundtracks possible.

E by gum. Since you like it simplistic I thought you might like this truth "Surgical strikes causing unintentional collaterol damage""