Wonkers and Israel

[Gary Childress]

Oh so this guy might be implying that israel smoked its own people to create a pretext for blaming hamas, invading gaza and annexing it? I'm guessing more or less becuz I didn't look into that link. But that's the logical MO for a theory like that.

Yeah by now I'm pretty much burned out on the whole thing and not as interested as i was a week ago. But u know me; I dimiss it all as more of the same of the consequences of religion and capitalism, and i pay very little attention to the big grand zionist conspiracies and all that shit.

But it is cute and kinda entertaining to watch everybody miss the mark entirely when they take a shot at explaining the causes of the conflict.

What, EXACTLY, IS 'the mark' here "promethean75"?

Wake me up when iran and syria and china and everybody gets going tho. I don't wanna miss that.

I did not make those statements, Age. Please be more careful concerning the accuracy of your quoting. Thank you.

[Age]

Oh so this guy might be implying that israel smoked its own people to create a pretext for blaming hamas, invading gaza and annexing it? I'm guessing more or less becuz I didn't look into that link. But that's the logical MO for a theory like that.

Yeah by now I'm pretty much burned out on the whole thing and not as interested as i was a week ago. But u know me; I dimiss it all as more of the same of the consequences of religion and capitalism, and i pay very little attention to the big grand zionist conspiracies and all that shit.

But it is cute and kinda entertaining to watch everybody miss the mark entirely when they take a shot at explaining the causes of the conflict.

What, EXACTLY, IS 'the mark' here "promethean75"?

Wake me up when iran and syria and china and everybody gets going tho. I don't wanna miss that.

[Age]

I did not make those statements, Age. Please be more careful concerning the accuracy of your quoting. Thank you.

Okay. Apologies AGAIN, and thanks, ONCE AGAIN, for POINTING 'me' TO my OBVIOUSLY VERY LACKING OF AWARENESS here "gary childress"?

[Gary Childress]

I did not make those statements, Age. Please be more careful concerning the accuracy of your quoting. Thank you.

Okay. Apologies AGAIN, and thanks, ONCE AGAIN, for POINTING 'me' TO my OBVIOUSLY VERY LACKING OF AWARENESS here "gary childress"?

You're welcome. Thank you for acknowledging your mistake.

[Alexis Jacobi]

It is strange to witness and take stock of the on-going *fracturing* that, in the case of these explosive events in Israel, radiate outward to the entire world. Cracking, fracturing, division, disunity. I just read in the NYTs that some Republicans are associating an anti-Israel or anti-Zionist position on the University campuses with *wokism*.

It is surely a valid endeavor to attempt to see into 'wokism' and Critical Theory and to critique it, yet Israel really does provide a diagram of classical colonialism and of course classical racism. It also provides a clear picture of a type of apartheid. For the *truly left and truly progressive* the solution is that of South Africa: the incorporation of all peoples in the region into one state that, naturally, will no longer be a Jewish state. That is all fine and dandy but presently, and as a result of its choices (and what the world imposed on it) South Africa is literally coming unglued. It looks to be on a trajectory that will wind up in the condition of a failed state. If I delve into the *real and true reasons* why such is inevitable, I imagine that my discourse will be understood to be racialist which is a type of racism I guess. But slightly modified.

Is it really a question though of 'wokism'? It seem rather to be a question that revolves around the right of a people to exist as a people according to the terms of their choice. The 'woke' (in America) advocate for multi-culturalism and multi-racialism and advocate very strongly against the project of maintaining a predominantly white European society. America is defined as a 'proposition nation': accept the proposition and you can be American. But the truth is that it was quite literally constructed under different original terms: acute European identity and an anthropology that is now understood to have been superseded.

In doing this the so-called Woke very intensely turn against the Founders of the nation who had ideas about race and civilization that are now intolerable and literally crimethink. Indeed over the last 50-60 years, demographically, America has been remodeled. It therefore becomes necessary to define white European identity with supremacism. And it is a similar issue that is playing out in Israel. And it sure looks as though the end result of this project is not *social unity* and social concordance but the opposite. The social glue comes undone.

Strangely, to be Jewish is determined genetically. In this sense Judaism has always been deeply associated with racist ideas but obviously in times when such things were not bothered about (race and racism are modern ideas). In Germany in the Interwar period there was a tremendous concordance and agreement between committed Jews and nationalistic anti-Jewish theorists and activists. Committed Jews are deeply opposed to miscegenation and they still are. It has always been a social and religious crime to *marry out*. Many Jews agreed with the National Socialists who attempted to outlaw mixed-marriages. Real Orthodox Jewish theory is unquestionably racialist insofar as Jewishness is determined by genetics.

It is necessary to Judaism and to Jewishness -- as it pertains to Israel -- to establish and maintain separateness. Jewishness at all times and places maintains itself through separation and not assimilation. Assimilation is the death of Jewishness. These are very basic facts about Jewish identity. In Jewish circles they say that assimilation is more consequential than the Holocaust annihilation. The idea of assimilation is, effectively, the end of Jewish identification. With assimilation comes the end of the Jewish historical mission. There are terrifying passages in the Tanakh that describe horrifying punishments at the hand of HaShem for breaking the Covenant and declining the Jewish project.

Zionism and the creation of a Jewish state are thus the origin of an entire realm of problems that are fundamentally *modern*. Those problems, then, reverberate outward from the Israel-Palestine situation and vibrate the strings of many other people in many other places.

How can you maintain a truly Jewish state in modernity and given the suppositions and imperatives of modern outlook? You do not become a Jew by what you believe but rather through the genetics of those who brought you into the world. Yes, there is conversion, but note that the core tenet of conversion is renunciation of everything that is considered 'pagan'. For truly Orthodox conversion -- the only valid type for Aliya -- you are reprogrammed at a foundational level. If conversion is taken seriously -- often it is taken lightly of course -- it is quite demanding.

How odd it must be for so many *on the outside* to see re-enacted before them what was enacted in the biblical stories. The foundation of Judaism is in the establishment of a stark division and separateness. The 'other' and certainly the opponent of the Jew and of Judaism is far more than a mere person or a people. What opposes the Jew is metaphysical. And the symbol of what opposes the Jew is found in Ishmael and Amalek. When examined (by Rabbis) what animates Ishmael and Amalek is a metaphysical principle. And that is why Netanyahu is now placing the struggle -- in sheer seriousness -- as that of a battle between the Good and the Evil.

So, what do we do? Isn't that the true modern problem? We here are in a situation of being post-metaphysical. We have deconstructed and we hope to decommission that terrible Yahweh figure. But trust me he has not been decommissioned for hundreds of millions. And even in us there are *shadows* of the old metaphysics that surge up in us and people around us.

The theatre of life has thus become a sort of maddened theatre of enactment and reenactment. The Ship of Fools but at a world-level.

Now, to what degree do we *identify* and jump into the on-going enactments and seek a costume that fits the role our gut tells us is ours to play?

[Gary Childress]

But the truth is that it was quite literally constructed under different original terms: acute European identity and an anthropology that is now understood to have been superseded.

I disagree, I think "wokism" whatever that is, is the result of contemporary pressures on ALL peoples. "Wokism" is neither European nor belongs to any other group. It just is. Do people who use the word "woke" to describe themselves go overboard at times? Are people who use the word "woke" to describe themselves just plain WRONG sometimes? YOU BET. But this is humanity speaking to itself in a new way that was not common (perhaps didn't even exist) before mass exposure of everyone to each other through the Internet and the ease of international travel. It's here and it's going to stay. IT NEEDS TO STAY. AND I suspect the term "wokism" is a pretty stupid construction that offers little help to anyone trying to adjust to 'NOW', to begin with.

[phyllo]

I just read in the NYTs that some Republicans are associating an anti-Israel or anti-Zionist position on the University campuses with *wokism*.

What is an anti-Israel or anti-Zionist position?

Is that anything critical of Israeli actions?

[Alexis Jacobi]

What an anti-Israel or anti-Zionist position?

What do you think?

[Sculptor]

?

[Sculptor]

Yesterday Israel targets refugee camp south of the exodus line.
Killing 100+ civilians.
Number of dead Hamas held Israeli hostages killed by Israeli bombs so far 54.

[Gary Childress]

This could be the big one though. This could be the war that's going to end all wars because there will be no more people left on Earth to fight in them when our current leaders are finished trying to achieve their goals

[phyllo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M

[Alexis Jacobi]

I needed the Rabbi to clarify a few things. Now I feel resolve like never before.

[phyllo]

The Torah was written when people were hacking at each other with swords. An engagement would involved a small number of people perhaps in the hundreds or thousands. You could see a person surrendering. It was relatively easy for a group of "civilians" to get out of the way.

Now you have modern long-distance destructive weapons. You don't even see the people being targeted. One bomb can kill hundreds within seconds.

How can 2 million+ people surrender or get of of the way? Where are they going to go? When can they come back? Come back to what ... bombed out rubble?

No, the attacker has to identify civilians and avoid hitting them.

[phyllo]

If a civilian is someone who surrenders or leaves, then doesn't that justify the Hamas claim that all Israelis are soldiers and therefore legitimate targets?

The Israelis are not surrendering or leaving.