Philosophy Now Forum

PauloL wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:50 pm Textbooks teach us that mankind and apes have a common ancestor. That ancestor gave rise to 625 living ape species and one hominid. I don't contest that.

There are NOT 625 living ape species.

Humans ARE apes.

Carry on with this entertaining foolishness.

That's a semantic question. I separated apes and hominids. Of course that's arbitrary for the sake of discussing ideas. But you can say 626 ape species, including one hominid species, if you like.

PauloL wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:09 pmSo why does it take 9 months to conceive a human being? Because Nature, be it created by God or by pure chance, must obey the precise rules that govern it.

So why wouldn't those rules operate on evolution from inorganic matter to living matter?

Emergence. Abiogenesis was an emergence. Fertilisation is an emergence. The ignition of stars is an emergence.

So, consider the difference between the complex organic chemicals surrounding (and no doubt feeding) the first life when it emerged.

Consider the difference between the discrete sperm and egg before fertilisation and the resultant embryo.

Consider the difference between the superheated and compressed gas of a proto star and the star after nuclear ignition.

Consider the difference between the state of reality just before the big bang and then after it.

Reality changes in a plateau-to-plateau manner - be it from the release of potential energy to earthquakes to storms to learning to growth to decline and dying. In each case there are slow, seemingly imperceptible, changes with a gradual buildup of pressure, and once the pressure reaches a threshold there is "sudden" change. Yet the "seeds" of change lay subtly within the apparent stasis.

PauloL wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:20 pm That's a semantic question. I separated apes and hominids. Of course that's arbitrary for the sake of discussing ideas. But you can say 626 ape species, including one hominid species, if you like.

There are not 626 ape species. I believe there are seven, of which humans are one.

Our beautiful, evolutionarily closest relatives attend the movies.

davidm wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:13 am Our beautiful, evolutionarily closest relatives attend the movies.

Would you trust a stranger of a trainer to control 2 adolescent chimps in a crowded, loud movie theater where your kids are sitting? Why risk it?

Since they’re like humans, what if the beasts were drinking coffee just before the show? Maybe they were quarreling, ripe for irrational actions, which for a chimp means to break training and start throwing more than just popcorn at the screen.

Since they’re like humans the chimp might say no mas and just snap, like Stanley Kowalski eating spaghetti in the kitchen. Read the news, it happens every day in the human realm. Have you heard what a pissed-off chimp can do?

PauloL wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:09 pm So why does it take 9 months to conceive a human being?

It doesn't take 9 months to conceive a human, it only takes a very short time, it takes 9 months of gestation from conception to birth.

Have you ever been talking to someone and thought, "That is the sperm that won?"

thedoc wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:10 pm
It doesn't take 9 months to conceive a human,

It doesn't even take 9 seconds sometimes, or so I've been told.

Harbal wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:15 pm

thedoc wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:10 pm It doesn't take 9 months to conceive a human,

It doesn't even take 9 seconds sometimes, or so I've been told.

Conception doesn't take that long, but the build up takes a lot longer and is more fun.

OK, you're 100% right. I meant 9-month gestation, of course.

I have no remedy for your premature ejaculations though.

PauloL wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:37 pm I have no remedy for your premature ejaculations though.

Nor your own judging by your performance here.

Greta wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:51 pm Emergence. Abiogenesis was an emergence. Fertilisation is an emergence. The ignition of stars is an emergence.

So, consider the difference between the complex organic chemicals surrounding (and no doubt feeding) the first life when it emerged.

Consider the difference between the discrete sperm and egg before fertilisation and the resultant embryo.

Consider the difference between the superheated and compressed gas of a proto star and the star after nuclear ignition.

Consider the difference between the state of reality just before the big bang and then after it.

Reality changes in a plateau-to-plateau manner - be it from the release of potential energy to earthquakes to storms to learning to growth to decline and dying. In each case there are slow, seemingly imperceptible, changes with a gradual buildup of pressure, and once the pressure reaches a threshold there is "sudden" change. Yet the "seeds" of change lay subtly within the apparent stasis.

Your full style is all present here: clarity, balance, and transparency, but simplistic notions of your delicacy mask exceptional power of your finest masterpiece, exploiting chromatic suspensions.

It is only through recognizing the violence and sensuality at the center of your thoughts that we can make a start towards a comprehension of its structures and an insight into its magnificence. In a paradoxical way, your superficial characterization of life can help us to see daemon more steadily. In all of its supreme expressions, there is something shockingly voluptuous.

You have a gift for absorbing and adapting valuable features of all works ever done and thought around the mistery of existence, from creation to evolution and perhaps, I'd dare say lowly, even further.

PauloL wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:06 pm

Greta wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:51 pm

Your full style is all present here: clarity, balance, and transparency, but simplistic notions of your delicacy mask exceptional power of your finest masterpiece, exploiting chromatic suspensions.

It is only through recognizing the violence and sensuality at the center of your thoughts that we can make a start towards a comprehension of its structures and an insight into its magnificence. In a paradoxical way, your superficial characterization of life can help us to see daemon more steadily. In all of its supreme expressions, there is something shockingly voluptuous.

You have a gift for absorbing and adapting valuable features of all works ever done and thought around the mistery of existence, from creation to evolution and perhaps, I'd dare say lowly, even further.

No, I have mean and weak gifts, just that I have finally learned to pay closer attention to actual reality and how it works by reducing focus on human games.

thedoc wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:23 pmThe Bible only states that life was created but does not say how God did it.

Dunno what bible you're reading, but most say something along these lines:
Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Genesis 2:7.
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. Genesis 2:22.

uwot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:02 pm

thedoc wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:23 pmThe Bible only states that life was created but does not say how God did it.

Dunno what bible you're reading, but most say something along these lines:
Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Genesis 2:7.
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. Genesis 2:22.

"The Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground" I would agree completely, what did you eat for your meal, didn't it either grow in the dirt, was an animal that ate what grew in the dirt? Does what you eat not form what you are? Humans usually take their first breath when they are born, and the rib could be an analogy to the genetic origin of another human being. The Bible was written by stone age nomads that didn't understand anything about genetics and couldn't understand anything about it, everything was written in the form of mythology.