Philosophy Now Forum

IC is the other poster who's post I will look at deliberately, and don't say I have low standards because of that.

What is more important is does God have free will to forgive those God chooses to. I know several people who believe in universalism, that is everyone will go to heaven.

BardoXV wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:57 pm IC is the other poster who's post I will look at deliberately, and don't say I have low standards because of that.

Oh no: read Mannie cuz he's worth readin'.

He's highbrow.

BardoXV wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:05 pm What is more important is does God have free will to forgive those God chooses to. I know several people who believe in universalism, that is everyone will go to heaven.

Not about his free will as much as it is about him adherin' to his own rules. If God sez a man is forgiven if he does XY & Z, then when XY & Z are done, God has to hold up his end of the deal. As a free will, sure, God can renege on standin' contracts, but that leaves his rep in the dirt.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:25 pm

BardoXV wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:57 pm IC is the other poster who's post I will look at deliberately, and don't say I have low standards because of that.

Oh no: read Mannie cuz he's worth readin'.

He's highbrow.

See...this is why Henry and I get along, Doc.

Henry writes:

"when XY & Z are done, God has to hold up his end of the deal. As a free will, sure, God can renege on standin' contracts, but that leaves his rep in the dirt."

Straight to the point. The guy shoots straight with words, rifle or scattergun. And he's always fair. So what's not to like?

Read Henry because between the lines, you'll learn a lot.

I do.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:32 pm

BardoXV wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:05 pm What is more important is does God have free will to forgive those God chooses to. I know several people who believe in universalism, that is everyone will go to heaven.

Not about his free will as much as it is about him adherin' to his own rules. If God sez a man is forgiven if he does XY & Z, then when XY & Z are done, God has to hold up his end of the deal. As a free will, sure, God can renege on standin' contracts, but that leaves his rep in the dirt.

Isaiah 55 - 8 "My ways are not your ways", why should God come down to human expectations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqWW3Mo5vo8

BardoXV wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:00 pm Isaiah 55 - 8 "My ways are not your ways", why should God come down to human expectations.

Quite simply, because it's inherently not a "come down," and it's not as a result of, or in deference to "human expectations."

Rather, right conduct is a divine expectation of humans, not the other way around.

Micah 6:8 -- "He has told you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God?"

Does God ask of human beings what is not consonant with His own character? If He expects men to do justice, it is because He is the just God.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:22 pm

BardoXV wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:00 pm Isaiah 55 - 8 "My ways are not your ways", why should God come down to human expectations.

Quite simply, because it's inherently not a "come down," and it's not as a result of, or in deference to "human expectations."

Rather, right conduct is a divine expectation of humans, not the other way around.

Micah 6:8 -- "He has told you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God?"

Does God ask of human beings what is not consonant with His own character? If He expects men to do justice, it is because He is the just God.

Doc,

God can't expect my respect if he sez 'do as I say, not as I do'. As I say: as a free will, sure, God can renege on standin' contracts, but that leaves his rep in the dirt.

If he's lookin' for me to walk the straight & narrow while accepting capriciousness from him (cuz he's God), he shouldn't have made me in his image: a free will. If he was lookin' for a lickspittle, he shoulda opted out installing dignity.

A capricious God is one who ought be deposed. Barrin' that, he ought be resisted.

Now, my god is cool. He built a decent universe, built me to live successfully in it, and he gave me a conscience. He's never demanded I take a knee; or that I must turn a blind eye to, or accept, bad behavior from him.

He demands only that I stand .

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:22 pm Does God ask of human beings what is not consonant with His own character?

I don't know except that I trust that God has my best interest in mind.

BardoXV wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:52 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:22 pm Does God ask of human beings what is not consonant with His own character?

I don't know except that I trust that God has my best interest in mind.

Well, that shows faith: because you're expecting Him to be having a kind attitude toward you, at least ultimately, no? And that makes sense, because He commanded men to "love kindness."

So you surely don't suppose he's a hypocrite, right? I mean, somebody who told you to "do justice," and then was unjust Himself would be nothing more than that.

Nothing whatever to do with god and everything to do with human nature. Most often we question god on the subject rather than ourselves which is a way of debating it as something external to us. The real story of evil is far less grand being simply ensconced in a twisted piece of flesh that is the brain replete with its own debased and corruptible mental memes easier explained by psychology than philosophy.

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:07 am Nothing whatever to do with god and everything to do with human nature. Most often we question god on the subject rather than ourselves which is a way of debating it as something external to us. The real story of evil is far less grand being simply ensconced in a twisted piece of flesh that is the brain replete with its own debased and corruptible mental memes easier explained by psychology than philosophy.

A fine set of Christmas wishes, Dub!

Merry Christmas!

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:07 am The real story of evil is far less grand being simply ensconced in a twisted piece of flesh that is the brain replete with its own debased and corruptible mental memes easier explained by psychology than philosophy.

But what makes evil "evil," dub?

By your account, it's just another way things are. And mere ways things are are not inherently good or evil -- they just are. To identify them as evil, you have to have a value scale in mind: and how do we legitimize any particular value scale, if the truth is that the world is simply a product of time and chance in which the things that are have come into being through impersonal processes?

The Big Bang does not supply values. There is, then, no evil, and no good -- only what is.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:05 am But what makes evil "evil," dub?

Are you saying you haven't lived long enough to know?? You need philosophy to figure that out!

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:05 amThe Big Bang does not supply values. There is, then, no evil, and no good -- only what is.

Pray! What does the BB have to do with it? But since you mention it and if true, that would also pertain to your little Jesus episode in history.

In short, no evil, no good, the whole enchilada of existence signifying NOTHING! It seems we at least half agree on something.