Philosophy Now Forum

Also, believing in God serves no purpose. If you belive that God created this earth, well, big deal. With all that power and intelligence, he did a very poor job and I am not impressed. However, if God did not create this earth, then the possibilities are endless. WIth God, the bottom line will always be magic and science does not work well with magic. Also magic is for children, not grown ups. And I really don't understand why grown ups want to believe in magic. It is just absurd.

And don't say it's not magic. If God created everything from nothing, then it was magic. Nothing more and nothing less.

So when grown ups need to believe in magic, it can only be because they need the psychological crutch that in case something goes wrong, God will break the laws of science for them, work his magic (read miracle) and everything will be all right because they are special and God keeps an eye out for them.

sthitapragya wrote:Also, believing in God serves no purpose. If you belive that God created this earth, well, big deal. With all that power and intelligence, he did a very poor job and I am not impressed. However, if God did not create this earth, then the possibilities are endless. WIth God, the bottom line will always be magic and science does not work well with magic. Also magic is for children, not grown ups. And I really don't understand why grown ups want to believe in magic. It is just absurd.

It's sort of like the way people may have different fetishes, right? Some people will have no interest in the same fetishes that other people have... and they may even find some fetishes sick or absurd. Yet meeting that person on the street, one probably wouldn't know what they were "into". But when it comes to having a god... it's often right out there in public... and being pushed. And for many people, it makes no sense and has no appeal. Shouldn't that be understood and acceptable? We aren't all driven by the same things.

Lacewing wrote: But when it comes to having a god... it's often right out there in public... and being pushed. And for many people, it makes no sense and has no appeal. Shouldn't that be understood and acceptable? We aren't all driven by the same things.

I'm sorry that you seem to have encountered some "Christians" who feel the need to proselytize and push their religion onto others. I would hope you could encounter some who were more tolerant and accepting of different points of view.

On another forum I encountered a "Christian" who seemed to feel that if you didn't believe exactly like he did, you were condemned to hell, and he told you in no uncertain terms. We butted heads for awhile till I just got tired of telling him that his methods were going to drive more away than they were going to attract. I even suggested that he was being selfish and wanted to drive others away so that he could have Heaven all to himself.

thedoc wrote:

Lacewing wrote: But when it comes to having a god... it's often right out there in public... and being pushed. And for many people, it makes no sense and has no appeal. Shouldn't that be understood and acceptable? We aren't all driven by the same things.

I'm sorry that you seem to have encountered some "Christians" who feel the need to proselytize and push their religion onto others. I would hope you could encounter some who were more tolerant and accepting of different points of view.

On another forum I encountered a "Christian" who seemed to feel that if you didn't believe exactly like he did, you were condemned to hell, and he told you in no uncertain terms. We butted heads for awhile till I just got tired of telling him that his methods were going to drive more away than they were going to attract. I even suggested that he was being selfish and wanted to drive others away so that he could have Heaven all to himself.

You really have no reason to apologize because the world is made up of all sorts of people. I just wish that forum visitors would be mature enough to understand that differences of opinion does not characterize people. People are people. Their religious belief or lack thereof in no way changes their approach to the world. My problem is the bias. I don't see any difference between theists and atheists so when I come across haters, who actually believe stuff like atheists are out to destroy the world or theists are fanatic killers, it gets my goat up and i retaliate nastily. I probably don't mean half of what I say, but if someone gets me angry or irritated, I think it is my duty to do the same to him. . Also what else is there to do on a forum?

If however someone approaches the topic civilly like you do, I think the debate could be constructive and fun as it has been with so many other forum visitors. It is the haters who vitiate the atmosphere by making things personal.

Thought I'd repost this, Nick_A, as despite looking, I couldn't find any attempt at an answer.

Nick_A wrote: Yet the potential for the transcendent god and the source of creation beyond the limitations of time and space is impossible to deny since by definition it is beyond the limitations of the literal mind.

Must have missed it. Who is actually denying that potential?

I did notice yiostheoy say:

yiostheoy wrote: What I have noticed about atheists is that they are fanatical about their irrational belief.

Immanuel Can used the same language. On the face of it, they seem to be arguing that it is irrational to not believe in something for which there is no evidence. In fact they are arguing that it is irrational to insist that there is evidence that god doesn't exist. No atheist with any sophistication would argue such a position, and Nick_A cannot provide an instance of anyone doing so, but of course, theists are in the habit of believing things they have no evidence for.

sthitapragya wrote:Also, believing in God serves no purpose.

Actually it does, it makes you second think your actions.

sthitapragya wrote:If you belive that God created this earth, well, big deal. With all that power and intelligence, he did a very poor job and I am not impressed.

This planet is perfection. Are you really some kind of spoiled brat?

sthitapragya wrote:However, if God did not create this earth, then the possibilities are endless.

How so?

sthitapragya wrote: WIth God, the bottom line will always be magic and science does not work well with magic.

What the hell does magic have to do with God? Since i KNOW God exists, i KNOW there is a scientific explanation for its existence.

sthitapragya wrote:Also magic is for children, not grown ups. And I really don't understand why grown ups want to believe in magic. It is just absurd.

Again, suggesting magic=God.. you are talking bollocks.

sthitapragya wrote:And don't say it's not magic. If God created everything from nothing, then it was magic. Nothing more and nothing less.

Who is saying God created something from nothing?

sthitapragya wrote:So when grown ups need to believe in magic, it can only be because they need the psychological crutch that in case something goes wrong, God will break the laws of science for them, work his magic (read miracle) and everything will be all right because they are special and God keeps an eye out for them.

More bollocks.

attofishpi wrote: Actually it does, it makes you second think your actions.

Seriously? That might work for you, doesn't seem to work for the pedophile priests.

This planet is perfection. Are you really some kind of spoiled brat?

No. you just have terrible standards, if you are okay with a system where innocent children die, sometimes horribly, every day, not to mention the millions that are exploited and abused everyday.

How so?

It would mean anything. Since this universe is 13.7 billions years old, we would have to now try and figure out if we could the state of existence before this universe of space/time. It would mean life came into existence spontaneously, and so did consciousness, which is simply amazing.

What the hell does magic have to do with God? Since i KNOW God exists, i KNOW there is a scientific explanation for its existence.

And what is the scientific explanation for God's existence?

Who is saying God created something from nothing?

Okay, what did God create the universe from?

uwot wrote:Thought I'd repost this, Nick_A, as despite looking, I couldn't find any attempt at an answer.

Nick_A wrote: Yet the potential for the transcendent god and the source of creation beyond the limitations of time and space is impossible to deny since by definition it is beyond the limitations of the literal mind.

Must have missed it. Who is actually denying that potential?

.[/quote]
It's a shame no one was still listening enough to see that this was a self defeating statement.
But then one's eyes do tend to glaze over at the constant and repeated bullshit, and lack of credibility.

Are you suggesting it is equally impossible to affirm given that it is beyond comprehension and necessarily impossible to discuss?

FlashDangerpants wrote:Are you suggesting it is equally impossible to affirm given that it is beyond comprehension and necessarily impossible to discuss?

Er... Affirm what? ... Discuss what exactly?

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

FlashDangerpants wrote:Are you suggesting it is equally impossible to affirm given that it is beyond comprehension and necessarily impossible to discuss?

Er... Affirm what? ... Discuss what exactly?

I think FDP is talking to Nick... by posing the other side to Nick's statement?

If it is impossible to deny... is it also impossible to affirm... that which is beyond comprehension?

Lacewing wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

FlashDangerpants wrote:Are you suggesting it is equally impossible to affirm given that it is beyond comprehension and necessarily impossible to discuss?

Er... Affirm what? ... Discuss what exactly?

I think FDP is talking to Nick... by posing the other side to Nick's statement?

If it is impossible to deny... is it also impossible to affirm... that which is beyond comprehension?

Possibly but the post was relevant, ironic or not. And yes you are correct.

I wasn't actually sure I had picked the only way he defeated himself. People have made the assumption that Nick only loses in one direction before. But in this single category of endeavour, he is a most talented gentleman, far be it from me to clip his wings.

Lacewing wrote:Nick, Walker, Yios... you guys are so full of made-up crap about what an atheist is, and what an atheist thinks and does... and you cannot FUCKING know!!! You can only describe yourself to such a degree. But I'm guessing that it will be impossible for you to grasp this and to stop projecting your short-sightedness onto a vast range of people that cannot be defined by your tiny-ass view. You want to judge and invalidate, so much... that you completely ignore what non-theists are saying back to you. You insist that you know better than they know themselves. It is the height of arrogance and ignorance... and it vividly displays why theists get such a bad reputation for intruding on everyone else. You are being too ignorant to even talk to.

Oh you’re not that special. We’re all living on the planet earf and working with the same tools.

Keep sellin no.

Atheism is a pet concept.

Kill the pet concept.

Kill the Buddha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ya-hoIum3M

FlashDangerpants wrote:I wasn't actually sure I had picked the only way he defeated himself. People have made the assumption that Nick only loses in one direction before. But in this single category of endeavour, he is a most talented gentleman, far be it from me to clip his wings.

This is a tried and tested method by which the Theist avoids scrutiny. It is no more worthy or credible for it being repeated so much.
But make any irrefutable and yet indefensible comment you like it makes no impact to those that have a keen critical eye.