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Re: US and Israel attack Iran

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2026 11:01 pm
by Janoah
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2026 1:35 am
Janoah wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2026 1:14 pm By the way, how do you explain that none of the supporters of oppressed Islamists took them in during the fighting, including neighboring Egypt, and a little further away Spain, Londonistan?
After all, millions of refugees from Syria and Ukraine were accepted.
And by the way, #FreeAlAndalus, for starters.
It seems extremely foolish to me for Israel and the US to be mongering for war right now. We need to seek peace for our own self-preservation.
Gary, don't turn on its head.
The Arabs were the first to attack Israel, and they have been attacking and terrorizing Israel all along.
In response to Israel's peace agreements and concessions to the Palestinians, the Palestinians are indulging in even more bloody terror.
Israel is left to defend itself.

Israel had good relations with the Shah's Iran.
And the ancient Persian king Cyrus the Great is called the messiah (Christ in Greek) by the prophet Isaiah, and a street in Jerusalem is named after him.

The Ayatollah government declared the United States and Israel to be its main enemies, and since then Iran has been waging a proxy war against Israel.
And in the current military campaign, Iran first launched strikes inside Israel on April 13, 2024.
Israel cannot allow Iran to threaten with nuclear weapons.

But there is a more interesting point, the structure of the state of the ayatollahs gravitates towards the precepts of Plato and Aristotle.
Plato called democracy one of the unsuitable forms of government, and the ideal one is the power of the philosophical aristocracy (not sophists, but true philosophers).
Aristotle advocated a middle way, a combination of an aristocracy of philosophers and democracy.
The ayatollahs are familiar with the philosophy of Plato and Aristotle as interpreted by Muslim philosophers, and even Khomeini wrote a letter to Gorbachev urging him to turn to Muslim philosophers. And it's right to turn to Farabi and Avicenna.
But the fact that they are going against Israel does not lead them to anything good.

Meanwhile, Western sages idolize democracy and divide themselves into zero even without war.

In China, too, democracy is not idolized, there is an ideological aristocracy in power, and they are perhaps the most successful in improving the well-being of their people.

Trump is trying to achieve peaceful and fruitful relations with Russia, but the stupid Western Europeans are betting on a war with Russia to the last Ukrainian. Meanwhile, US voters are working to turn the US into the Islamist-leftist perverted cesspool.

Re: US and Israel attack Iran

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2026 3:45 am
by Gary Childress
Janoah wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2026 11:01 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2026 1:35 am
Janoah wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2026 1:14 pm By the way, how do you explain that none of the supporters of oppressed Islamists took them in during the fighting, including neighboring Egypt, and a little further away Spain, Londonistan?
After all, millions of refugees from Syria and Ukraine were accepted.
And by the way, #FreeAlAndalus, for starters.
It seems extremely foolish to me for Israel and the US to be mongering for war right now. We need to seek peace for our own self-preservation.
Gary, don't turn on its head.
The Arabs were the first to attack Israel, and they have been attacking and terrorizing Israel all along.
In response to Israel's peace agreements and concessions to the Palestinians, the Palestinians are indulging in even more bloody terror.
Israel is left to defend itself.

Israel had good relations with the Shah's Iran.
And the ancient Persian king Cyrus the Great is called the messiah (Christ in Greek) by the prophet Isaiah, and a street in Jerusalem is named after him.

The Ayatollah government declared the United States and Israel to be its main enemies, and since then Iran has been waging a proxy war against Israel.
And in the current military campaign, Iran first launched strikes inside Israel on April 13, 2024.
Israel cannot allow Iran to threaten with nuclear weapons.

But there is a more interesting point, the structure of the state of the ayatollahs gravitates towards the precepts of Plato and Aristotle.
Plato called democracy one of the unsuitable forms of government, and the ideal one is the power of the philosophical aristocracy (not sophists, but true philosophers).
Aristotle advocated a middle way, a combination of an aristocracy of philosophers and democracy.
The ayatollahs are familiar with the philosophy of Plato and Aristotle as interpreted by Muslim philosophers, and even Khomeini wrote a letter to Gorbachev urging him to turn to Muslim philosophers. And it's right to turn to Farabi and Avicenna.
But the fact that they are going against Israel does not lead them to anything good.

Meanwhile, Western sages idolize democracy and divide themselves into zero even without war.

In China, too, democracy is not idolized, there is an ideological aristocracy in power, and they are perhaps the most successful in improving the well-being of their people.

Trump is trying to achieve peaceful and fruitful relations with Russia, but the stupid Western Europeans are betting on a war with Russia to the last Ukrainian. Meanwhile, US voters are working to turn the US into the Islamist-leftist perverted cesspool.
Point taken; I stand corrected. Looking at more of the situation, Iran has attacked Israel in retaliation when Israel has attacked Hamas or Hezbollah in retaliation for attacks by Hamas and Hezbollah against Israel in surprise. According to ChatGPT there have been instances where Israel launched surprise attacks against Iran. However, as far as who started the whole thing, it appears that after the Shah was overthrown, Iran became hostile toward Israel due to Iran's new anti-Western ideological stance and started funding organizations such as Hezbollah, which caused Israel to eventually conduct covert operations to counter Iran's interference. From that information, it appears that Iran may have started the ball rolling on the whole thing.

If the world were a fair place, then it seems like the West (as well as Israel) should be able to negotiate peace with Iran. But that doesn't seem to be the case. That doesn't leave us in all that great of a position, because we currently have Iran backed by China and Russia, and the three of them together are probably considerably more than the US and allies can handle.

So what do we do? Do we hope that there's a God and God will not allow the US and our allies to lose? There's still the problem of the forces of the so-called "Axis of Resistance". They may be the stronger group.

It seems best to me to try to make peace with Iran. Trump should never have initiated hostilities in February. In fact, I have heard that Trump's attack could have been based on a misunderstanding the Trump administration had over the negotiations that preceded the initiation of hostilities in February. Iran made a concession in rolling back part of its nuclear program, but Trump didn't think it was enough because he didn't understand the full situation with nuclear weapons, and the concession was much more generous than Trump took it to be. So Trump attacked under a misunderstanding of what was going on.

The world cannot afford a fight to the end. Someone is going to have to admit making a mistake and apologize to someone else. And I don't see Iran doing that. And Trump is too stupid, corrupt, and foolhardy to do it. But it needs to be done.

Re: US and Israel attack Iran

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2026 11:07 am
by phyllo
What the Greater Israel project really stands for

Daniel Levy

I have a new op-ed in The Guardian looking at the real meaning of the Greater Israel project. I argue the goal is about more than territorial expansion and settlement, its central feature is also a geopolitical power-play in the region. That necessitated bringing the U.S. into a war against Iran, including a premeditated attempt to weaken Gulf States and create dependencies.

I'm sceptical it can succeed, but in order to confront and prevent the project, one needs first to understand its dimensions.

You can read the full op-ed here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ter-israel

Or below in the continuation of this post.

Also flagging this clip posted by Ayman Mohyeldin from an interview I gave to MS NOW’s The Weekend about Netanyahu’s push to upend any ceasefire, especially via Israel’s continued strikes in Lebanon.

It’s a theme I also discussed recently with Becky Anderson on CNN. With Israel-Lebanon talks taking place in Washington, DC, I argued that Israel is trying to push Lebanon back to civil war. And this clip looks at Israel's refusal to countenance genuine win-win diplomacy. Finally, this segment explores Israel’s intentions vis-à-vis the GCC states in the context of the U.S.-Israel war on Iran.

What Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli right really mean when they invoke ‘Greater Israel’

By Daniel Levy, President, U.S./Middle East Project (USMEP)

The Guardian, April 13, 2026

Much remains unclear about the significance and durability of the two-week pause in the US and Israel’s war on Iran. But one aspect of the conflict remains as clear today as it was six weeks ago. Donald Trump doesn’t have a plan. Benjamin Netanyahu does.

Israel’s war aims were to maximally degrade the capacity of the Iranian state, achieving not so much regime change as state implosion. Despite the ceasefire, Netanyahu has emphasised that this is “not the end of the campaign” and that Israel’s “finger is on the trigger” to resume combat. A seasoned strategist, he has spent the second Trump administration seizing the opportunity of geopolitical fluidity to reach for his end goal: a Greater Israel.

When it’s invoked on the Israeli right, “Greater Israel” is often seen as a purely territorial concept: an attempt to increase the size of territory that Israel claims as its own. This is certainly integral to its meaning. After all, Israel has been expansionist and entailed the displacement and dispossession of Palestinians since its inception, and this process has now accelerated considerably.

In the past two-and-a-half years, Israel has flattened and reconquered Gaza, killing tens of thousands of people and laying waste its civilian infrastructure, squeezing its population, according to one estimate from last year, into just 12% of an already tiny strip of land. In the West Bank, Israel continues a campaign of destruction and displacement towards Palestinian people and property that is unparalleled since the six-day war in 1967, expanding its matrix of control and settlement.

After the fall of President Bashar al-Assad in 2024, Israel seized territory in Syria (beyond the illegally annexed Golan Heights) and is in the process of reconstituting a zone of occupation in southern Lebanon. Government ministers from the Religious Zionism and Jewish Power factions, and Likud parliamentarians, openly agitate for Israeli sovereignty and settlement in that country. The finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, has called for Israel to “expand to Damascus”, and Netanyahu himself claimed to feel “very much connected” to this territorial vision of Greater Israel.

However, Greater Israel should be seen as a geopolitical and strategic concept as much as a territorial one. The acquisition and control of land is, in many respects, the obvious and easy part. Israel’s prime minister is pursuing something both more ambitious and more sophisticated than the simple control of territory – a project of dominion that is made up of new alliances, underwritten by hard power dependency.

To understand this, we need to go back a few years. After the terrible crimes inflicted on Israelis on 7 October, and as the magnitude and cruelty of Israel’s response in Gaza became clear, its attempts at regional integration – normalising relations with Arab neighbours – became increasingly stuck. Netanyahu faced a choice: either resume efforts at regional normalisation via a more accommodationist approach to the Palestinians, or double down on his zero-sum negation of a Palestinian future. In opting for the latter, Netanyahu needed to remove Iran as a regional power balancer – a move that required direct and massive US military engagement alongside Israel.

In the days preceding the Iran war, two influential former Israeli security figures writing for the Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security observed that, from the point of view of key regional Sunni states, overthrowing the Iranian regime or weakening it significantly would establish Israel’s status as the “dominant regional power”.

Achieving this necessitates not only collapsing Iran but simultaneously weakening the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) states – Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates – and making them dependent on Israel for security and energy export routes. In other words, the war’s spillover impact of GCC states being hit by Iranian drones and missiles can be seen as an intentional design feature for Israel, not a regrettable side-effect.

Predictably, when Israel and the US launched this war, the GCC’s access to global markets via the strait of Hormuz was severely impacted. And when Israel escalated by targeting Iranian energy infrastructure, Iran made good on its threat to respond in kind against the Gulf.

Netanyahu took the opportunity to call for “alternative routes instead of the chokepoints of the Hormuz Strait and the Bab-al-Mandab Strait”, anticipating “oil pipelines, gas pipelines going west through the Arabian Peninsula right up to Israel, right up to our Mediterranean ports”.

In his public pronouncements, Netanyahu has connected some of the dots of his project for Greater Israel dominion. Just days before the start of this war, during a visit to Israel by the Indian prime minister, Narendra Modi, Netanyahu shared his vision to “create an entire system, essentially a kind of hexagon of alliances around or within the Middle East”, including “India, Arab nations, African nations, Mediterranean nations (Greece and Cyprus), and nations in Asia”. Israel would be the key nodal point of this alliance.

A recently published piece in Hebrew from two high-ranking figures at the official strategy institute of the Israel Defense Forces helpfully filled in some of the blanks. They argued that Israel’s military would not only conquer territory directly, but also achieve “operational control even in areas far from Israel’s borders, without occupying and holding territory”. Israel would be granted “a superior status as a kind of ‘queen’ of the jungle” (it is not uncommon to hear the rest of the Middle East referred to as “the jungle” in Israeli political discourse), establishing “a regional order that will further Israel’s goals”.

In recent speeches, Netanyahu has started referring to Israel not only as a “regional superpower”, but “in some respects, a global superpower”. Israel is looking to place itself at the centre of a regional alliance that could be sustained even if US power draws down. Netanyahu has promised that the hexagon alliance would be deployed against the “radical Shia axis … and the emerging radical Sunni axis”. Israel has not been shy in naming the next “threat” to be addressed: Turkey.

Talk of a Greater Israel dominion might be treated as typical wartime hyperbole. Recent Israeli policy tells us it would be a mistake to do so. A permanent war orientation runs deep in Israel’s political class, government and opposition, security establishment, new-right elite and media. This thinking, however, carries tremendous potential for overreach and blowback; it is a danger for Israel itself and something the region will not accept.

In the long list of postwar challenges, deterring and containing this project of Greater Israel dominion might be among the most important.

Daniel Levy is a political commentator and the president of the US/Middle East Project. He served as an Israeli peace negotiator at the Oslo II talks.
https://daniellevy2.substack.com/p/what ... ect-really

Re: US and Israel attack Iran

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2026 12:01 pm
by Janoah
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2026 3:45 am
Janoah wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2026 11:01 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2026 1:35 am

It seems extremely foolish to me for Israel and the US to be mongering for war right now. We need to seek peace for our own self-preservation.
Gary, don't turn on its head.
The Arabs were the first to attack Israel, and they have been attacking and terrorizing Israel all along.
In response to Israel's peace agreements and concessions to the Palestinians, the Palestinians are indulging in even more bloody terror.
Israel is left to defend itself.

Israel had good relations with the Shah's Iran.
And the ancient Persian king Cyrus the Great is called the messiah (Christ in Greek) by the prophet Isaiah, and a street in Jerusalem is named after him.

The Ayatollah government declared the United States and Israel to be its main enemies, and since then Iran has been waging a proxy war against Israel.
And in the current military campaign, Iran first launched strikes inside Israel on April 13, 2024.
Israel cannot allow Iran to threaten with nuclear weapons.

But there is a more interesting point, the structure of the state of the ayatollahs gravitates towards the precepts of Plato and Aristotle.
Plato called democracy one of the unsuitable forms of government, and the ideal one is the power of the philosophical aristocracy (not sophists, but true philosophers).
Aristotle advocated a middle way, a combination of an aristocracy of philosophers and democracy.
The ayatollahs are familiar with the philosophy of Plato and Aristotle as interpreted by Muslim philosophers, and even Khomeini wrote a letter to Gorbachev urging him to turn to Muslim philosophers. And it's right to turn to Farabi and Avicenna.
But the fact that they are going against Israel does not lead them to anything good.

Meanwhile, Western sages idolize democracy and divide themselves into zero even without war.

In China, too, democracy is not idolized, there is an ideological aristocracy in power, and they are perhaps the most successful in improving the well-being of their people.

Trump is trying to achieve peaceful and fruitful relations with Russia, but the stupid Western Europeans are betting on a war with Russia to the last Ukrainian. Meanwhile, US voters are working to turn the US into the Islamist-leftist perverted cesspool.
So what do we do?
Accept Shiite Islam, Iran, Mamdani, perhaps that will suit them.

Re: US and Israel attack Iran

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2026 12:29 pm
by Gary Childress
Janoah wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2026 12:01 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2026 3:45 am
Janoah wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2026 11:01 pm

Gary, don't turn on its head.
The Arabs were the first to attack Israel, and they have been attacking and terrorizing Israel all along.
In response to Israel's peace agreements and concessions to the Palestinians, the Palestinians are indulging in even more bloody terror.
Israel is left to defend itself.

Israel had good relations with the Shah's Iran.
And the ancient Persian king Cyrus the Great is called the messiah (Christ in Greek) by the prophet Isaiah, and a street in Jerusalem is named after him.

The Ayatollah government declared the United States and Israel to be its main enemies, and since then Iran has been waging a proxy war against Israel.
And in the current military campaign, Iran first launched strikes inside Israel on April 13, 2024.
Israel cannot allow Iran to threaten with nuclear weapons.

But there is a more interesting point, the structure of the state of the ayatollahs gravitates towards the precepts of Plato and Aristotle.
Plato called democracy one of the unsuitable forms of government, and the ideal one is the power of the philosophical aristocracy (not sophists, but true philosophers).
Aristotle advocated a middle way, a combination of an aristocracy of philosophers and democracy.
The ayatollahs are familiar with the philosophy of Plato and Aristotle as interpreted by Muslim philosophers, and even Khomeini wrote a letter to Gorbachev urging him to turn to Muslim philosophers. And it's right to turn to Farabi and Avicenna.
But the fact that they are going against Israel does not lead them to anything good.

Meanwhile, Western sages idolize democracy and divide themselves into zero even without war.

In China, too, democracy is not idolized, there is an ideological aristocracy in power, and they are perhaps the most successful in improving the well-being of their people.

Trump is trying to achieve peaceful and fruitful relations with Russia, but the stupid Western Europeans are betting on a war with Russia to the last Ukrainian. Meanwhile, US voters are working to turn the US into the Islamist-leftist perverted cesspool.
So what do we do?
Accept Shiite Islam, Iran, Mamdani, perhaps that will suit them.
Shouldn't we "accept" Shiite Islam, Iran, and Mamdani? And does "accepting" them necessarily mean converting to their views? Perhaps it simply means accepting their right to exist in the same way as we have a right to exist. Otherwise, perhaps it would not be fair for us to expect them to convert to our views any more than it would be fair for them to expect us to convert to their views.

If everything has to be "our way or the highway," then, where views differ, someone needs to go, and that someone may be them or it may be us. Learning how to coexist is the only peaceful alternative.