Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:35 pmSo...it's not that Hamas was cunning and devious, and hid their plans? And it's not Hamas's fault for raping, murdering and kidnapping civilians?
It's the Israeli's fault -- because they should have been paternalisticaly in control of the naive and foolish Gazans, and weren't? That's your argument?
Too funny. Try again.
A couple of notes. A reminder: this is a philosophy forum and we should have a greater respect for sound reasoning and balanced analysis than those in the *outside world*. Yet a great deal of the conversation and argument that does go on is really *partisan bickering*. We can certainly do better and the first step is trying to gain a non-biased stance. That may be hard but it is not impossible.
The principal lesson I have gained from Immanuel Can is how easy it is for a person with a fanatical religious orientation, and in his case an Evangelical and Christian Zionist orientation and commitment,
to lie. While I cannot say and do not believe that his lies are conscious and intended (he actually believes what he writes) I have become fascinated with what I understand to be the *psychological problem* that encloses fanaticism.
A fanatic is captured and dominated by overpowering ideas that distort what we would consider to be *normal perception*. The fanatic does not see *reality* he sees what he has broadcast onto reality. He sees his own projection. Projections of this sort -- for example the projection of all evil onto an external enemy -- is a psychological tactic whereby the projector occults his own relationship to that *evil*. It is thus a psychological ploy that results in self-deception.
I am interested here in two words: *cunning* and "devious[ness]" What I suspect -- this is my interpretation of course -- is that Immanuel and many millions of others
project all evil onto the enemy and through this tactic avoid self-examination. Naturally I mean political self-examination but it does go farther than just the political domain. In short, and though I repeat myself, within a generally understood Judaic and rabbinic perspective Jews see themselves as Sons of Light in a battle with Sons of Darkness. In the Christian Evangelical perceptual world it is *the Christian* in a war with Satan and his diabolical forces. The same paradigm but one that operates in each case differently.
It is beyond question that Israel received a terrible and if the term has any use a *barbaric* blow by the Hamas fighters. If we are realists though we know that this is war. There is no war or skirmish that I am aware of in recent times that is not essentially barbaric. Once one is engaged in war one is engaged in barbarism. The stronger faction will, naturally, use all its strength and armaments in the boldest and most direct way to *utterly crush* the enemy. The weaker faction will use all tools at its disposal, even though it might not be capable of conventional war, to do the most damage as it can to the stronger enemy.
Hamas is certainly calculating, cunning, wily, and focused on its object: doing all the harm it can to Israel. The armaments that it has at its disposal however are tremendously inferior and therefore it uses what lies to hand. On the other side Israel is no less cunning and devious and is 1,000 times more powerful economically and militarily. Additionally it has as its ally and backer the United States -- the most powerful country in the world and the country with the most developed military. Israel --
technically -- has the advantage. It has 100 times and maybe even 1,000 times more advantage than the Palestinians or the Gazans.
But here's the thing: Israel is not *winning* in this battle. In
every area it is losing. Its overreaction has appalled the entire world. It has shown itself weak and powerless when it had broadcast the image of power invincibility. The Israeli economy is heading to substantial disaster. Israeli society, though for the moment united in a will to do all the harm possible to Hamas, to Palestinian civilians, to the infrastructure of Gaza, is still deeply divided and when the smoke lifts the social and political conflicts may indeed tear Israeli society to shreds. (This was happening before October 7th and is related to the same nexus of political errors that brought Israel into existence -- admittedly this is a complex topic). The entire world is reacting to the genocidal and deeply *illegal* destruction of civilians in Gaza. Israel has lost any standing it had. Surrounding countries are now reconsidering their alliances with Israel. And in addition there is a general mood of both Jewish and Israeli suspicion and a deep questioning of Occidental *support* for Israel and principally a criticism of the US unquestioning support for Israel. Many thousands of Israelis have been injured and though no one knows the number of Israeli killed in action it is rumored to be very high. There is another aspect too: though Israel has a powerful and committed military force there is an entire sector in Israeli society that is not at all prepared for war and for protracted fighting. The hot Israeli chicks on Tic-Toc do not a successful military force make. It has been said that Hezbollah's fighters are far superior to Israel's.
In short on all fronts Israel is not *winning* but is suffering debilitating damage. Another important thing must be mentioned: in the United States there is a developing suspicion of and resentment of Jewish-Zionist influence and many more people are exposed to information and perspectives that are critical of Jewish-Zionist activism and power within the government of the US. Obviously, there is a great deal of push-back (against what is termed antisemitism) but I do not think this is going to be swept under the rug. Just the other night I watched what I thought was a pretty balanced examination of
the history that has led to the present situation on FrontLine. And this one titled
Failure at the Fence.
Both offer pictures of the conflict that have far more depth than is generally allowed in the US media-system. These are mainstream presentations not fringe presentations and many millions will see them and, I suppose, begin to examine their own perceptions but also what has been *fed* them over decades. What most who write here (I assume) do not understand is that for Jewry the situation offered in the United States has been completely unparalleled within Jewish history. The beginning of the loss of that standing is presaged here. And it is said that this comes about through Jewish-Zionist and Israeli-Zionist overreach. They have
overplayed their hand. And
reaction is developing.
And here we must examine the Hamas attack and what its
function was. As a military operation, despite the illegality of indiscriminate rocket firing, despite hostage-taking (also illegal), and despite the wonton killing, and even if there are instances of rape or sexual abuse, nevertheless the Hamas attack is understood to be both audacious and brilliant, even though the resulting counter-attack is likely more severe than they (Hamas) imagined.
Here I suggest that one drop one's affiliations and preferences and try to see things in the light of realism.
Israel has displaced, abused, wounded, killed and raped Palestinians for 70+ years.
That is what occupation and conquest involve! Everywhere that it is attempted and undertaken. And what it is doing now -- this I propose but I cannot be sure -- will do such damage to the Israeli state that indeed it might not survive in its present form. You've got to try to see into the future even if you can only guess.
