The Limits of Science

[SpheresOfBalance]

What a bunch of self serving cnuts you people are.
And of course you're not, as evidenced by your argument, obviously serving who?
You have in fact been the biggest pot calling the kettle black that I've ever seen on this forum.
That it takes one to know one is in fact often the case, that you exemplify, oh so readily.

You know what's funny, often men pick the hardest thing to fathom, to parrot, so as to thrust their chest out the farthest, to beat it the loudest, such can be testosterone, gone unchecked! Oh I'm not saying it's easy to control, just the wiser choice. And it comes with age, whether one wants it or not. Unfortunately a biological imperative.

[Blaggard]

Watch how the be all end all who never got the argument in the first place then says this is not what I was talking about, but then made one long slew of cuntwittery that lead to this point anyway.

If once any of you self rigtheous piece of shit cunts had actually read what I said instead of talking shit and trying to farm a right from a cock answer like you can never be wrong, we would not be here now.

Well watch how this ignore works, walks out of the forum and never comes back, because if I have to hear one more self righteous cnut talk self righteous shit at me like they actually are talking to me and not around me well, then I don't know what I'll do.

Watch how an actual ignore works.

Fuck you and the horses - you dumb infantile and over egotistical little fucking mushrooms who have to be right about something even when they fuck up so badly that everyone knows they're just using sophistry to salvage some ego from somewhere - rode in on.

I sincerely hope you are not posting on any other forum because you two are the sort of people that give philosophy a bad name. Damage limitation, and you should not be allowed to. REally take your head out of your fucking ass, and grow the fuck up you infantile narcissist.

Cry me a fucking river you dumb ass.

SoB the lord of I am psychic you can go fuck yourself as well you showed just how shit you are at reading people when you launcehd in like a p**** at a **** tea party on the Gattica thread, before waiting to see what I actually said. Something I said on the film thread weeks ago anyway, if you think I was being needlessly false, if you think it was sophistry. You're as bad as these idiots. You have a massive ego, and when you are wrong it's like the wolrd ended and the sky fell, so much so that you will endlessly vacilate and talk shit to try and avoid the simple conclusion that you are as human as the rest of us.

The lnog dark tea time of philosophy is marked here and on this forum for all to note. If this is all there is it's moribund at the very least.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Watch how the be all end all who never got the argument in the first place then says this is not what I was talking about, but then made one long slew of cuntwittery that lead to this point anyway.

If once any of you self rigtheous piece of shit cunts had actually read what I said instead of talking shit and trying to farm a right from a cock answer like you can never be wrong, we would not be here now.

Well watch how this ignore works, walks out of the forum and never comes back, because if I have to hear one more self righteous cnut talk self righteous shit at me like they actually are talking to me and not around me well, then I don't know what I'll do.

Watch how an actual ignore works.

Fuck you and the horses - you dumb infantile and over egotistical little fucking mushrooms who have to be right about something even when they fuck up so badly that everyone knows they're just using sophistry to salvage some ego from somewhere - rode in on.

I sincerely hope you are not posting on any other forum because you two are the sort of people that give philosophy a bad name. Damage limitation, and you should not be allowed to. REally take your head out of your fucking ass, and grow the fuck up you infantile narcissist.

Cry me a fucking river you dumb ass.

SoB the lord of I am psychic you can go fuck yourself as well you showed just how shit you are at reading people when you launcehd in like a p**** at a **** tea party on the Gattica thread, before waiting to see what I actually said. Something I said on the film thread weeks ago anyway, if you think I was being needlessly false, if you think it was sophistry. You're as bad as these idiots. You have a massive ego, and when you are wrong it's like the wolrd ended and the sky fell, so much so that you will endlessly vacilate and talk shit to try and avoid the simple conclusion that you are as human as the rest of us.

The lnog dark tea time of philosophy is marked here and on this forum for all to note. If this is all there is it's moribund at the very least.

Tell me Blag, are you male? Of course you are! Currently the testosterone is oozing from your eyes.
Try to abuse me some more, I find it laughable, really. You're not even close to being as bad ass as my father was, as he would have done pulled a gun on me, trust me, I know!

Sure we all do it sometimes, but some deserve it more than others, you've been a pretty big pr|ck to some undeserving people, of your initial encounter. You've run-a-muck, like a snowball tumbling down a mountain, picking up mass and inertia. You are spoiled it's obvious, I'm afraid you talk a better talk than you walk, when one thinks of humility. I suggest you stand back and take a breather, you'll find that it allows you to not be so emotionally invested. When I do such, ones words have no strength, and rather simply become laughable.

Sure you want to make you mark, everyone does!

[skakos]

Anyway, skakos; to get back to your thread. I've probably said it on this thread already, but to me, the limits of science are very simple: it's observation and applied maths. Speculating about what might be the case is metaphysics until you have the physics, or at least physical means, to make an observation.
People wail about how science says this or science says that. Actually, that's usually scientists saying it and they are only slightly less prone to fruitloopery than the general population. If science 'says' anything, it is: this is what the world demonstrably does, make of it what you will.

Science is a way to interpret the observation.
Metaphysics is about accepting what you saw...

[uwot]

Science is a way to interpret the observation.

Well, yes, I think that's true. I think what makes the interpretation 'science' is if it only refers to other things that could, at least in theory, be observed.

Metaphysics is about accepting what you saw...

That is a really good way of looking at it. (It's so good I will convince myself that I thought about it with it within a fortnight.)

[Blaggard]

Watch how the be all end all who never got the argument in the first place then says this is not what I was talking about, but then made one long slew of cuntwittery that lead to this point anyway.

If once any of you self rigtheous piece of shit cunts had actually read what I said instead of talking shit and trying to farm a right from a cock answer like you can never be wrong, we would not be here now.

Well watch how this ignore works, walks out of the forum and never comes back, because if I have to hear one more self righteous cnut talk self righteous shit at me like they actually are talking to me and not around me well, then I don't know what I'll do.

Watch how an actual ignore works.

Fuck you and the horses - you dumb infantile and over egotistical little fucking mushrooms who have to be right about something even when they fuck up so badly that everyone knows they're just using sophistry to salvage some ego from somewhere - rode in on.

I sincerely hope you are not posting on any other forum because you two are the sort of people that give philosophy a bad name. Damage limitation, and you should not be allowed to. REally take your head out of your fucking ass, and grow the fuck up you infantile narcissist.

Cry me a fucking river you dumb ass.

SoB the lord of I am psychic you can go fuck yourself as well you showed just how shit you are at reading people when you launcehd in like a p**** at a **** tea party on the Gattica thread, before waiting to see what I actually said. Something I said on the film thread weeks ago anyway, if you think I was being needlessly false, if you think it was sophistry. You're as bad as these idiots. You have a massive ego, and when you are wrong it's like the wolrd ended and the sky fell, so much so that you will endlessly vacilate and talk shit to try and avoid the simple conclusion that you are as human as the rest of us.

The lnog dark tea time of philosophy is marked here and on this forum for all to note. If this is all there is it's moribund at the very least.

Tell me Blag, are you male? Of course you are! Currently the testosterone is oozing from your eyes.
Try to abuse me some more, I find it laughable, really. You're not even close to being as bad ass as my father was, as he would have done pulled a gun on me, trust me, I know!

Sure we all do it sometimes, but some deserve it more than others, you've been a pretty big pr|ck to some undeserving people, of your initial encounter. You've run-a-muck, like a snowball tumbling down a mountain, picking up mass and inertia. You are spoiled it's obvious, I'm afraid you talk a better talk than you walk, when one thinks of humility. I suggest you stand back and take a breather, you'll find that it allows you to not be so emotionally invested. When I do such, ones words have no strength, and rather simply become laughable.

Sure you want to make you mark, everyone does!

No I don't want to make my mark, I am too old and too bored to want to change the world any more, at least I have grown accustomed to the fact I never will no matter how hard I try, it's not in my remit, cool beans.

I want people to respond to what I said, to listen to me, and answer what I actually said.

I couldn't give a damn if your father made you fight a bear every St Crispins day or you escaped from his household only to be brought down by his trusty puma 20 miles from home. Although that's horrible and if that happened that would be wrong. An answer from someone who actually read what I said though, and didn't just make up straw men because they can't and didn't, and now have to be right about something by manipulating the discussion so far beyond it's original remit that they can wangle in any puma. Well you can go strap yourself to cruise missile and fire yourself at the sun for all I care, because that will achieve more than talking word wank because it's so hard to admit that for once in you Jesus life you did not understand someone, and could heaven forbid be wrong, and Christ on a unicycle that would kill you anyway, to be wrong, to actually admit to anyone that you fucked up, it's not that hard is it?

Is it too much to ask someone actually responds to what I said though? I don't expect the average narcissist to care about admitting they were wrong about anything, but it would be nice if they tackled what you said, not some magical sleigh ride through a wardrobe into Narnia they had to fabricate so as not to seem real, and honest, and just that little bit normal, and mediocre even, like the rest of us, the real people who at some point grew up and realised they are not the all singing all dancing saviour of conversant dialogue who has to just be so right all the time, like some gibbering buffoon in a circus which is a clown festival of clown shoes and dumbwittery? Is it that hard to say, well ok I get what you said finally, for once you don't have to admit you were wrong, in fact I doubt you ever could but to amit that what I said was not beyond the realms of reason, and sorry I didn't get it before? Is it, is it really that hard to have integrity? Are you really that sad that you have to chalk up an argument forever so that you can salvage something of your dignity when you could of just said oh right, I thought you were having a go at philosophy, or Philosophers, or philosophy in general. I mean is it? Is it that hard to say yes I now got your point I will not keep launching into massive salvos of ad hominems claiming that you my son are just shit at philosophy when no one said they were good at it? I am shit at philosophy I get it, in all its forms I suck so badly that even the average person would be embarassed by me, but since that was never anything to do with what I said, can we not make a song and dance about something I have said a million times before. Can we not belabour the point about my inadequate philosophical scope when it has nothing at all to do with anything i remotely said at all?

Yeah apparently not, stroll on then...

[SpheresOfBalance]

Watch how the be all end all who never got the argument in the first place then says this is not what I was talking about, but then made one long slew of cuntwittery that lead to this point anyway.

If once any of you self rigtheous piece of shit cunts had actually read what I said instead of talking shit and trying to farm a right from a cock answer like you can never be wrong, we would not be here now.

Well watch how this ignore works, walks out of the forum and never comes back, because if I have to hear one more self righteous cnut talk self righteous shit at me like they actually are talking to me and not around me well, then I don't know what I'll do.

Watch how an actual ignore works.

Fuck you and the horses - you dumb infantile and over egotistical little fucking mushrooms who have to be right about something even when they fuck up so badly that everyone knows they're just using sophistry to salvage some ego from somewhere - rode in on.

I sincerely hope you are not posting on any other forum because you two are the sort of people that give philosophy a bad name. Damage limitation, and you should not be allowed to. REally take your head out of your fucking ass, and grow the fuck up you infantile narcissist.

Cry me a fucking river you dumb ass.

SoB the lord of I am psychic you can go fuck yourself as well you showed just how shit you are at reading people when you launcehd in like a p**** at a **** tea party on the Gattica thread, before waiting to see what I actually said. Something I said on the film thread weeks ago anyway, if you think I was being needlessly false, if you think it was sophistry. You're as bad as these idiots. You have a massive ego, and when you are wrong it's like the wolrd ended and the sky fell, so much so that you will endlessly vacilate and talk shit to try and avoid the simple conclusion that you are as human as the rest of us.

The lnog dark tea time of philosophy is marked here and on this forum for all to note. If this is all there is it's moribund at the very least.

Tell me Blag, are you male? Of course you are! Currently the testosterone is oozing from your eyes.
Try to abuse me some more, I find it laughable, really. You're not even close to being as bad ass as my father was, as he would have done pulled a gun on me, trust me, I know!

Sure we all do it sometimes, but some deserve it more than others, you've been a pretty big pr|ck to some undeserving people, of your initial encounter. You've run-a-muck, like a snowball tumbling down a mountain, picking up mass and inertia. You are spoiled it's obvious, I'm afraid you talk a better talk than you walk, when one thinks of humility. I suggest you stand back and take a breather, you'll find that it allows you to not be so emotionally invested. When I do such, ones words have no strength, and rather simply become laughable.

Sure you want to make you mark, everyone does!

No I don't want to make my mark, I am too old and too bored to want to change the world any more, at least I have grown accustomed to the fact I never will no matter how hard I try, it's not in my remit, cool beans.
Could be: Communication. Reason: Your mark and mine, two different things. I didn't mean one lifelong, all encompassing, rather everyday, one in any given situation, your say in any particular matter, being effectual. Which is what we were talking about, I thought.

I want people to respond to what I said, to listen to me, and answer what I actually said.
Then stop being so cocky, remembering communication complications.

I couldn't give a damn if your father made you fight a bear every St Crispins day or you escaped from his household only to be brought down by his trusty puma 20 miles from home. Although that's horrible and if that happened that would be wrong.
It's not "really" about it being wrong or right, it's about edification as to the differences between us all.
I think I've given some good starting points for discussion as to the "philosophy of mind."
Plus imagine if you will for a second, that you experienced what I have shared about my own life, how could you project the effects it may have had on your life. And contained within that may be a small portion of understanding of people like me, not to be ridiculed, simply because you were fortunate enough for it not to be your case, as it was a chance happening, some are lucky, some are not, luck of the draw. If one didn't have to deal with what I had, they would indeed be lucky, and if your bit about dyslexia is true, then that would be part of your story that may allow one to look through your window on life. As one not experiencing it would surely be lucky. In anticipation of potential argument, "of course there are pros and cons to anything." Though some particular cons can be devastating, a major setback. And of course I'm primarily talking about all people during their first five years of life, when the psyche is being formed. That which allows one to proceed, effectively navigating life's pitfalls. I see that at birth we each have the same potential, barring either physical or mental abnormalities. That especially that first year, where 90% of the human psyche is formed, and then the next four for that last 10%, is critical that it go as smoothly and lovingly as possible, so as to be more capable of effectively coping with what life demands.

An answer from someone who actually read what I said though, and didn't just make up straw men because they can't and didn't, and now have to be right about something by manipulating the discussion so far beyond it's original remit that they can wangle in any puma. Well you can go strap yourself to cruise missile and fire yourself at the sun for all I care, because that will achieve more than talking word wank because it's so hard to admit that for once in you Jesus life you did not understand someone, and could heaven forbid be wrong, and Christ on a unicycle that would kill you anyway, to be wrong, to actually admit to anyone that you fucked up, it's not that hard is it?

Is it too much to ask someone actually responds to what I said though? I don't expect the average narcissist to care about admitting they were wrong about anything, but it would be nice if they tackled what you said, not some magical sleigh ride through a wardrobe into Narnia they had to fabricate so as not to seem real, and honest, and just that little bit normal, and mediocre even, like the rest of us, the real people who at some point grew up and realised they are not the all singing all dancing saviour of conversant dialogue who has to just be so right all the time, like some gibbering buffoon in a circus which is a clown festival of clown shoes and dumbwittery? Is it that hard to say, well ok I get what you said finally, for once you don't have to admit you were wrong, in fact I doubt you ever could but to amit that what I said was not beyond the realms of reason, and sorry I didn't get it before? Is it, is it really that hard to have integrity? Are you really that sad that you have to chalk up an argument forever so that you can salvage something of your dignity when you could of just said oh right, I thought you were having a go at philosophy, or Philosophers, or philosophy in general. I mean is it? Is it that hard to say yes I now got your point I will not keep launching into massive salvos of ad hominems claiming that you my son are just shit at philosophy when no one said they were good at it? I am shit at philosophy I get it, in all its forms I suck so badly that even the average person would be embarassed by me, but since that was never anything to do with what I said, can we not make a song and dance about something I have said a million times before. Can we not belabour the point about my inadequate philosophical scope when it has nothing at all to do with anything i remotely said at all?
And all the rest of this, your expressionism as to wanting to make your mark on life; being effectual, everyday, in every way. But I don't think you really needed to exercise it to that extent. IMHO you can come off a bit abrasive sometimes. I've actually watched you misunderstand ones meaning, take thedoc for instance, you had taken offense of his meaning, that I for one fully understood, as not being as you had thought. AND NO, IT'S NOT ABOUT BLAME. Or me getting a leg up, I'm simply being informative here. As this kind of thing goes on every day in every way, for everyone. Degree doesn't matter as who's tallying anyway? As no one should, as they certainly were there once. Once? Again who's tallying?


Yeah apparently not, stroll on then...

My take on the matter! Your mileage may differ, Semantics?

[Arising_uk]

...
Well watch how this ignore works, walks out of the forum and never comes back, because if I have to hear one more self righteous cnut talk self righteous shit at me like they actually are talking to me and not around me well, then I don't know what I'll do.

Watch how an actual ignore works.

We're watching and so far it seems like bluster and brag, so blustered and braggard it is.

...
Is it that hard to say, well ok I get what you said finally, for once you don't have to admit you were wrong, in fact I doubt you ever could but to amit that what I said was not beyond the realms of reason, and sorry I didn't get it before? Is it, is it really that hard to have integrity? ...

Fair point.

I'm sorry that I thought you were talking about philosophers and philosophy when you castigated 'philosophers' and 'philosophy' with respect to science and scientists.

Your turn, do you think that you were wrong about who had a degree or not when you argued with bob or did you use sophistry to justify yourself?

[Arising_uk]

My argument numb nut was those who don't know anything or at least every little about science should not criticise science. ...

And yet you think this should not apply to the subject of philosophy?

When I pointed-out the very reasonable proposition that before one criticises a philosophers thoughts one should at least have read them first you went bat-shit. Why should not what you said there apply to the sciences?

[Arising_uk]

...
God you're shit at philosophy, how you ever passed an exam in it is beyond belief, presumably the books in the library didn't talk back to you, so you could tell them just how they should think without actually reading what they said.

You're right, my course had no essays, no extended essays, no exams, no thesis, no course tutors and no exam board. Just a library with books and yet I still didn't get a first! Go figure.

[Arising_uk]

Science is a way to interpret the observation.
Metaphysics is about accepting what you saw...

Wouldn't it be more the theory that does that and the metaphysics the thing that grounds both? That is, that science's metaphysics is that there is an external world that is observable and so far appears to follow law-like laws?

[Blaggard]

Bob did not have or do what that's just fucking confusing now, who an where an in the what why? You people are really bad at making sense, no offence. Where, quote me happy, where did I say this?


Genuinely I am not being deliberately obtuse but everything you are saying is just completely off the charts on nonsense, if I was playing Devil's advocate or whatever I would of admitted it by now. I can only assume you are playing Devil's toilet, because there's nothing here anyone can or ever would I think make sense of?

What the fuck are you banging on about? It's weird, nonsensical and reaching no?

Bob ate green cheese and was a malmunt, lerm slost, with quos, tell the menf that he was quat. Is all I am getting. Huh? What and no offense if you study philosophy or ever had you'd expect something that was about what I said at some point by now. Clearly though that aint ever going to happen so I'd just let it go, clearly I don't speak bullshit as fluently as you. So continuing to speak in this esoteric nonsense language is presumably something that only philosophers can get. Since I am not one I'd forgo wasting your time by waxing lyrical on it from now and hence. It's not intelligible to the plebian. Hey why not laucnh a dozen more ad hominems at me you seem to like that. Indulge yourselves.

If it's all the same to you I'll go and read Hegel upside down and in a mirror whilst wearing dark glasses in zero gravity, it might at least make more sense.

I have to ask and in all honesty and don't take this the wrong way: but are you really studying philosophy because it seems to me by now someone who was, might at some point have actually utilised the skills therein, that lead them to say something that has some bearing on what anyone said? I criticised philosophy, professional Philosophers, did I fuck. I criticised some people who did some bad philosophy, is that really it? Is that all you have? Jeez. Over and over and over again it's like watching a lunatic run repeatedly head down into a brick wall.

Sometimes you just say something stupid, live with it, it's not the end of the world. Hell I've said when I am wrong dozens of times on this forum, do you think when I did people thought any less of me? No integrity is as much a part of science as it is philosophy, when you can't stop arguing nonsense because your ego is that fragile, you're in the wrong field I am afraid, the arts or the sciences are just not for you. Become a Priest perhaps or a Vicar, them guys don't need to be right or adroit, like you they just start by default in the right, there's no arguing with a religionist, they have an excuse though, what's yours?

[skakos]

Science is a way to interpret the observation.
Metaphysics is about accepting what you saw...

Wouldn't it be more the theory that does that and the metaphysics the thing that grounds both? That is, that science's metaphysics is that there is an external world that is observable and so far appears to follow law-like laws?

Sure science is based on some metaphysical dogmas. And many people forget that.
You cannot build anything without foundations.
And the foundations of science is metaphysics.

[uwot]

Science is a way to interpret the observation.
Metaphysics is about accepting what you saw...

Wouldn't it be more the theory that does that and the metaphysics the thing that grounds both? That is, that science's metaphysics is that there is an external world that is observable and so far appears to follow law-like laws?

Sure science is based on some metaphysical dogmas. And many people forget that.
You cannot build anything without foundations.
And the foundations of science is metaphysics.

While it is true that the belief in the external world is a metaphysical belief, it is not the foundations of science. Science does not need there to be any material cause of any phenomenon, science is ultimately empirical and studies the phenomena; most scientists accept some version of realism, but it is entirely possible to do good science believing that it's all an illusion.

[skakos]

The experiences of every person are different than the experiences of others.
And don't forget that science INTERPRETS, it does not just observe...
Monks just live their life.
And they are wiser than any scientist who tries to give names and tags to the things he sees...