Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

How should society be organised, if at all?

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bobevenson
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by bobevenson »

John wrote:Well apparently the "ultra-socialistic" Norwegians are happier and wealthier than the ultra-capitalist American's.
2nd Most Expensive Gasoline in the World: Oslo, Norway
Cost per gallon of regular gas: $9.33
Cost per gallon of premium gas: $9.69

If you don't mind, I think I'll stay in the USA, where I'm currently paying about $3.42 per gallon of regular gas or p-p-p-p-petrol as they call it in your country.
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John
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by John »

bobevenson wrote:
John wrote:Well apparently the "ultra-socialistic" Norwegians are happier and wealthier than the ultra-capitalist American's.
2nd Most Expensive Gasoline in the World: Oslo, Norway
Cost per gallon of regular gas: $9.33
Cost per gallon of premium gas: $9.69

If you don't mind, I think I'll stay in the USA, where I'm currently paying about $3.42 per gallon of regular gas or p-p-p-p-petrol as they call it in your country.
It's a bit sad that you measure your quality of life by the price of petrol, or gas if you prefer, but I think the Norwegians will be delighted you plan to stay where you are.
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sushil_yadav
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by sushil_yadav »

Arising_uk wrote: Is it consumerism? Man has always consumed and destroyed ecosystems, take what people call the unspoilt beauty of the moors in SW England, they are the result of earlier man not nature, as is much of the beauty of the English countryside as its the result of deforestation, early man destroyed the last of the big mammals in N. America, etc. Much of India itself I guess is the result of mans actions. Industrialization just makes the process larger I guess. Maybe its just hubris that makes us think we're not going to be like 99% of the species that have existed and at some time will become extinct and if we do then I guess life will just refill the 'gap' with something else.
The difference is in scale and magnitude of environmental destruction.

Hunter_Gatherer society destroyed environment only for food......Agrarian society destroyed environment for Food, Clothing & Shelter......Industrial Society has destroyed environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial Consumer Goods and Services.

If we compare the scale and magnitude of environmental destruction of the three human societies we have had on earth will find :

Hunter_Gatherer society was least destructive/ hardly caused any destruction......Agrarian Society was thousands of times more destructive.......Industrial Society is millions of times more destructive.


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
bobevenson
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by bobevenson »

John wrote:
bobevenson wrote:
John wrote:Well apparently the "ultra-socialistic" Norwegians are happier and wealthier than the ultra-capitalist American's.
2nd Most Expensive Gasoline in the World: Oslo, Norway
Cost per gallon of regular gas: $9.33
Cost per gallon of premium gas: $9.69

If you don't mind, I think I'll stay in the USA, where I'm currently paying about $3.42 per gallon of regular gas or p-p-p-p-petrol as they call it in your country.
It's a bit sad that you measure your quality of life by the price of petrol, or gas if you prefer, but I think the Norwegians will be delighted you plan to stay where you are.
Do you know why the price of gasoline is so high in Norway and the rest of your goddamn continent? It's because of your goddamn taxes and goddamn socialism. Norwegians will never be delighted about anything since they live their vacant lives under sheer government oppression. And any society that eats lutefisk deserves no better!
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John
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by John »

bobevenson wrote:Norwegians will never be delighted about anything since they live their vacant lives under sheer government oppression.
And yet they're happier and richer than Americans.
bobevenson
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

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John wrote:
bobevenson wrote:Norwegians will never be delighted about anything since they live their vacant lives under sheer government oppression.
And yet they're happier and richer than Americans.
How the fuck can anybody be rich or happy paying $9.33 a gallon for gas and being taxed to death to pay for your cradle-to-grave government doled out benefits??? Wake up and smell the coffee or whatever the fuck you people drink!!!
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John
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by John »

bobevenson wrote:How the fuck can anybody be rich or happy paying $9.33 a gallon for gas and being taxed to death to pay for your cradle-to-grave government doled out benefits??? Wake up and smell the coffee or whatever the fuck you people drink!!!
Apparently Mexico has lower tax rates and gas prices than the USA so I suppose it must be a better place to live. Remind me though, which side patrols the border?
bobevenson
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by bobevenson »

John wrote:
bobevenson wrote:How the fuck can anybody be rich or happy paying $9.33 a gallon for gas and being taxed to death to pay for your cradle-to-grave government doled out benefits??? Wake up and smell the coffee or whatever the fuck you people drink!!!
Apparently Mexico has lower tax rates and gas prices than the USA so I suppose it must be a better place to live. Remind me though, which side patrols the border?
Why don't you stick to the subject? If Mexico is so great, why are we going nuts trying to keep the Mexicans out. Conversely, I don't think Mexico is having any problem at all keeping Americans out. Man, you sure are a ding-a-ling!
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Arising_uk
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by Arising_uk »

bobevenson wrote:How the fuck can anybody be rich or happy paying $9.33 a gallon for gas and being taxed to death to pay for your cradle-to-grave government doled out benefits???
Think about it numbuts! No worries about getting ill, no worries about accidents, no worries about starving, no worries about homelessness, no worries about education for oneself or ones children, no worries about legal fees, good public transportation so no worries about cars, little worry about unemployment, etc, etc. This is why they accept high taxation and appear to be happier than Americans.
Last edited by Arising_uk on Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by Arising_uk »

bobevenson wrote:Why don't you stick to the subject? If Mexico is so great, why are we going nuts trying to keep the Mexicans out. Conversely, I don't think Mexico is having any problem at all keeping Americans out. Man, you sure are a ding-a-ling!
I think we can all see who's the bird-brain here as John has pointed-out a country that fits your criteria for what causes happiness and shown that they are not happier. Completely on subject.
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John
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by John »

bobevenson wrote:
John wrote:
bobevenson wrote:How the fuck can anybody be rich or happy paying $9.33 a gallon for gas and being taxed to death to pay for your cradle-to-grave government doled out benefits??? Wake up and smell the coffee or whatever the fuck you people drink!!!
Apparently Mexico has lower tax rates and gas prices than the USA so I suppose it must be a better place to live. Remind me though, which side patrols the border?
Why don't you stick to the subject? If Mexico is so great, why are we going nuts trying to keep the Mexicans out. Conversely, I don't think Mexico is having any problem at all keeping Americans out. Man, you sure are a ding-a-ling!
I wasn't saying Mexico was better than the USA, I was demonstrating why your criteria of low taxes and low gas prices wasn't a good one because if it was you'd have to accept that Mexico was more desirable than the USA. As you don't accept that you need to accept that your criteria are invalid. I even asked the question about border patrols because the answer is an obvious one but I should have know better than to use irony.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by Arising_uk »

sushil_yadav wrote:The difference is in scale and magnitude of environmental destruction.

Hunter_Gatherer society destroyed environment only for food......Agrarian society destroyed environment for Food, Clothing & Shelter......Industrial Society has destroyed environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial Consumer Goods and Services.

If we compare the scale and magnitude of environmental destruction of the three human societies we have had on earth will find :

Hunter_Gatherer society was least destructive/ hardly caused any destruction......Agrarian Society was thousands of times more destructive.......Industrial Society is millions of times more destructive.


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
What evidence do you have that the hunter/gatherer had a better state of mind than the agrarians, given that it was the agrarians that produced civilization? What do you mean by destroying mind given that we are at a higher state of knowledge, literacy and information than ever before?

Whilst I don't disagree that much damage is being done I think the idea of harking back to some earlier utopia is the wrong way to go. We should be thinking bigger, the Solar System contains vast mineral resources that would replace the need to mine here, at the very least if we could mine and capture asteroids we could place them around the the Earth and a simple iron cable from them to the ground would produce vast amounts of free green energy until the Earth stops turning.
bobevenson
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by bobevenson »

John wrote:I should have know better than to use irony.
It came naturally, like the iron hand of government socialism you live under.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by Arising_uk »

bobevenson wrote:It came naturally, like the iron hand of government socialism you live under.
:lol: And here was us thinking the last thirty-years we've been following the Yank model. Who'd have guessed that socialism looked so much like free-market capitalism!?
bobevenson
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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Post by bobevenson »

Arising_uk wrote:
bobevenson wrote:How the fuck can anybody be rich or happy paying $9.33 a gallon for gas and being taxed to death to pay for your cradle-to-grave government doled out benefits???
Think about it numbuts! No worries about getting ill, no worries about accidents, no worries about starving, no worries about homelessness, no worries about education for oneself or ones children, no worries about legal fees, good public transportation so no worries about cars, little worry about unemployment, etc, etc. This is why they accept high taxation and appear to be happier than Americans.
"The Merry Minuet"
They're rioting in Africa. They're starving in Spain.
There's hurricanes in Florida, and Texas needs rain.
The whole world is festering with unhappy souls.
The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles.
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch.
And I don't like anybody very much!


Outside of Florida and Texas, I guess the U.S. is pretty happy compared to Europe and the rest of the world.
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