Page 4 of 5
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:23 am
by Kayla
i have no idea what the question is here
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:59 am
by ..nameless..
Kayla wrote:what to preach in a sunday sermon
"Do what you know to be right, say what you know to be true, and leave with faith and patience the consequences to god!" - F.W. Robertson
"Do NOT do to 'others' what you don't want done to you!"
(EVERYTHING in the Universe, ALL INCLUSIVE, is 'others'!!!)
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:58 am
by Hanuman
Kayla wrote:I am sure the people at my church read the same news reports about how evil the chinese are as you or i do
Whoa, whoa, whoooa! What? I'll assume you are referring to the few Chinese people in power who've made this decision, rather than Chinese as a race (or nation) of people. Further, I believe a word like "ignorant", "mislead", or even "wrong" would be more appropriate than "evil".
As for the original topic, I think your first instinct was a good one on, do not judge, lest you be judged (I think I got that right). Having lost my religion (my Western one anyway), I constantly deal with the desire to voice my opinion while others are telling me what I need to do to get to heaven, but find it more constructive and less stressful to simply let them believe what they will and leave my thoughts to myself.
For your second topic, you may want to touch on love. My personal beliefs aside, I think much of what Jesus taught had to do with simply opening your heart to everyone: Your friends, family, strangers, and even enemies. In this world, we get so caught up with our beliefs, prejudices, goals, and fears, we often close off our minds (and hearts) to people without giving them a chance (i.e. the Chinese,
).
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:04 pm
by chaz wyman
Jesus is/is not divine; hell exists/does not exist; Mary is divine/not divine; there are miracles/there are no miracles; xmas should be celebrated/should not celebrated; be bible is god's word/is metaphorical; the bible is the literal truth/ not the literal truth.
I wish these fucking Xians would make up their minds!
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:09 pm
by chaz wyman
ochaye wrote:Kayla wrote:if the Aztec were not pagan, how would you describe them
Aztecs were pagan.
No the Aztecs were Aztecs. The word Pagan means 'village dweller' and was used by the emerging Xian religion as a term of abuse to denote the followers of the older religions in the Roman Empire, as urban Xianity moved through the cities.
It has no meaning to call Aztecs Pagan. You might as well call Buddhism, Jainism; Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism Pagan.
Paganism is not a creed or religion; it is a insulting reflection based on an assumption that Xianity (whatever that might be today) is the one true religion.
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:15 pm
by chaz wyman
Hanuman wrote:Kayla wrote:I am sure the people at my church read the same news reports about how evil the chinese are as you or i do
Whoa, whoa, whoooa! What? I'll assume you are referring to the few Chinese people in power who've made this decision, rather than Chinese as a race (or nation) of people. Further, I believe a word like "ignorant", "mislead", or even "wrong" would be more appropriate than "evil".
.
I think different might be more accurate. They have evolved their own manner of governance - a system that has remained stable and has provided for millions of hungry people for a good length of time. Democracy would never work their. Whilst we are in the subject you might like to reflect on the hypocrisy of our own nations who seem happy enough to trade with them whilst turning a blind eye to human rights abuses. This makes us complicit in that abuse.
Maybe we are ignorant, misled or just plain wrong too?
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:08 am
by Hanuman
Personally, I have a large distrust for government, and feel it does what it can to make money, as long as it can get away with it. Trade with China is not the greatest, but considering they are the loan shark and we (The US anyway, not sure about Europe) are the suckers who can't figure out how to spend less, I can't see it stopping anytime soon. If we get tough with them, they turn off the loans, and no politician wants that.
I agree, that while Communism isn't an ideal form of government, if they tried to switch overnight to a democratic system, it would be worse than Russia on steroids. You have a huge segment of the workforce basically doing useless, unskilled jobs. For example, at our office building, when we'd pull in, you had to go all the way to the back, make a U-turn, and pull up to the front of the building. At the U-turn, there was a brick wall straight ahead and to your right, as well as a sign showing U-turn, and still they felt it necessary to post a guard in front of the wall who would point, showing you to U-turn.
When I quipped how inefficient the system was, one of my Chinese colleges said, "It's better than having him running the streets with no job. That guy probably makes $200 a month, which is enough to rent a small room and feed his family. His salary is likely largely paid by the government, and he has a nice uniform and feels like he's making a difference." The same goes for the elevator operators there, who do nothing more than push floor buttons when you step on the lift.
If capitalism were introduced suddenly, unemployment would skyrocket, as corporations would downsize their workforce, dramatically. Even 10% unemployment would equate to 130 million people jobless. Could you imagine if it were 25 - 30% The place would implode.
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:54 am
by chaz wyman
Hanuman wrote:Personally, I have a large distrust for government, and feel it does what it can to make money, as long as it can get away with it. Trade with China is not the greatest, but considering they are the loan shark and we (The US anyway, not sure about Europe) are the suckers who can't figure out how to spend less, I can't see it stopping anytime soon. If we get tough with them, they turn off the loans, and no politician wants that.
I agree, that while Communism isn't an ideal form of government, if they tried to switch overnight to a democratic system, it would be worse than Russia on steroids. You have a huge segment of the workforce basically doing useless, unskilled jobs. For example, at our office building, when we'd pull in, you had to go all the way to the back, make a U-turn, and pull up to the front of the building. At the U-turn, there was a brick wall straight ahead and to your right, as well as a sign showing U-turn, and still they felt it necessary to post a guard in front of the wall who would point, showing you to U-turn.
When I quipped how inefficient the system was, one of my Chinese colleges said, "It's better than having him running the streets with no job. That guy probably makes $200 a month, which is enough to rent a small room and feed his family. His salary is likely largely paid by the government, and he has a nice uniform and feels like he's making a difference." The same goes for the elevator operators there, who do nothing more than push floor buttons when you step on the lift.
If capitalism were introduced suddenly, unemployment would skyrocket, as corporations would downsize their workforce, dramatically. Even 10% unemployment would equate to 130 million people jobless. Could you imagine if it were 25 - 30% The place would implode.
The Chinese system has always been capitalistic. The only difference is that the state held the monopolies. It is a species of Capitalism called State Capitalism. It is only called Communism by tradition has had very little in common with pre-Marist or even Marxist thought.
It has been swift and easy for the Chinese to er, 'liberalise' their system enabling them to quickly start to control the world's economic system. Where they score massively over the West is that they have major controls which maintain 100% employment, and prevent the sort of parasitism that has been the result of complex and dishonest creation of financial products which has brought the western economies to their knees.
Derivatives, whilst appearing to have created wealth have done nothing more that created debt, and rich individual wealthy speculators have managed to cream off vast 'profits' out of thin air to the detriment of the health of the economy and the poverty of 15% of Americans, many of them homeless, who no longer have the ability to feed themselves and rely on food stamps.
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:50 am
by Kayla
ok i did another sermon
very different this time
it was just me
i started by asking the audience to imagine an atheist communist homosexual who is pro gun control
then i asked for a show of hands on whether or not he is going to hell for sure
then i went on to talk about what the bible has to say on judging others
and about st. paul who wrote about the hope of salvation not certainty of salvation
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:47 am
by chaz wyman
Kayla wrote:ok i did another sermon
very different this time
it was just me
i started by asking the audience to imagine an atheist communist homosexual who is pro gun control
then i asked for a show of hands on whether or not he is going to hell for sure
What percentage of the 'flock' put up their hands?
then i went on to talk about what the bible has to say on judging others
and about st. paul who wrote about the hope of salvation not certainty of salvation
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:59 pm
by Kayla
about half of the hands went up but a lot of them were very hesitant as they were looking around at what other people were doing
they could tell it was a trick question
later i used my power of invisibility to listen in on what the church elders had to say
a couple of them were rather cranky about 'universalist heresy'
yes, in my neck of the woods the word heresy is used in contexts other than
"We must release the damnatus bombs to destroy this foul nest of Xenos heresy. all praise the Emperor, Master of mankind!"
a couple of others agreed that maybe it was a bit too close to heresy for their comfort but didnt think it was necessary to make a big deal otu of it because 'she is just a girl'
i think the way heresy works in their world is that more male and the older one is the more dangerous the heresy
on the up side a couple of the younger elders thought i made osme very good points
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:45 pm
by chaz wyman
Kayla wrote:about half of the hands went up but a lot of them were very hesitant as they were looking around at what other people were doing
That is sick!
they could tell it was a trick question
later i used my power of invisibility to listen in on what the church elders had to say
a couple of them were rather cranky about 'universalist heresy'
yes, in my neck of the woods the word heresy is used in contexts other than
"We must release the damnatus bombs to destroy this foul nest of Xenos heresy. all praise the Emperor, Master of mankind!"
a couple of others agreed that maybe it was a bit too close to heresy for their comfort but didnt think it was necessary to make a big deal otu of it because 'she is just a girl'
i think the way heresy works in their world is that more male and the older one is the more dangerous the heresy
on the up side a couple of the younger elders thought i made osme very good points
I really think you need to get out of there.
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:14 am
by John
chaz wyman wrote:Kayla wrote:about half of the hands went up but a lot of them were very hesitant as they were looking around at what other people were doing
That is sick!
That's perfectly normal. People look for peer group affirmation all the time so it's unfair to single out religious groups.
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:53 am
by chaz wyman
John wrote:chaz wyman wrote:Kayla wrote:about half of the hands went up but a lot of them were very hesitant as they were looking around at what other people were doing
That is sick!
That's perfectly normal. People look for peer group affirmation all the time so it's unfair to single out religious groups.
Yes, it is sick because it would be better that people would think for themselves. All religious groups encourage this 'flock' mentality.
I just think that a girl like Kayla with such a bright mind will end up being stifled where she is.
Re: what to preach in a sunday sermon
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:33 am
by Kayla
chaz it is not possible to think entirely by oneself at least not without going mad
feedback from other people is essential
a problem start when one replaces thinking entirely with feedback from others
one of my fellow parishioners talked to me privately and said that although she is skeptical about universalism she is not so skeptical as to totally exclude the possibility that it is right
however she is concerned that promoting unusual doctrines even if they are not clearly wrong may lead to church dissension and schisms