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Re: O Canada

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2026 9:52 pm
by phyllo
Poilievre fact checked
Pierre Poilievre has repeatedly argued that Canada’s economy is the weakest in the G7, that Mark Carney has consistently been wrong on economic policy, and that the federal government has failed to advance major projects.

This article examines four of those claims against the documented record.


“Mark Carney has been gallivanting around giving speeches filled with dazzling buzzwords that achieve nothing but the worst economy in the G7.”

Verdict: Misleading

Canada ranks first in the G7 for net debt-to-GDP and carries one of its smallest deficits.

The IMF projects Canada will have the second-fastest G7 growth over the next two years.

Canada had a weak Q4 2025 — the only G7 contraction that quarter — but Q1 2026 was flat to positive depending on the measure.

The record:

IMF April 2026 World Economic Outlook: Canada is projected to have the second-fastest real GDP growth in the G7 in 2026 and 2027, trailing only the United States.

Net debt-to-GDP: Canada’s ratio stands at 13.3% — the lowest in the G7, compared to a G7 average (excluding Canada) of 101.4%.

Employment: Canada’s unemployment rate fell from a peak of 7.1% in August/September 2025 to 6.7% as of March 2026, though still above the 2017–2019 pre-pandemic average of 6.0%. Wage growth has outpaced inflation for more than three consecutive years.

2025 full-year GDP: Canada grew 1.7%, avoiding the recession many economists predicted in early 2025.

Canada had a weak Q4 2025 followed by a flat Q1 2026. Statistics Canada reported no growth in Q1; the OECD measured the same quarter as 0.4% growth. In Q1 2026, the UK, US, Japan, and Germany all expanded.

U.S. tariffs imposed in 2025 significantly slowed Canada’s economy. Canada faces the lowest effective U.S. tariff rate among major trading partners at 5.2%, and every other G7 economy is navigating the same disruption.

“Mr. Carney has been wrong about every major economic issue of the last decade.”

Verdict: Misleading

According to numerous international assessments, Canada recorded one of the strongest G7 economic performances during the 2008-09 financial crisis under Carney’s leadership at the Bank of Canada.

The post-pandemic inflation misjudgment Poilievre cites was shared by every major central bank simultaneously.

The record:

Bank of Canada (2008–2013): Canada recorded one of the strongest G7 economic performances during the 2008-09 financial crisis, widely cited internationally as a model response. No major Canadian bank failed or required the kind of equity injection that characterized U.S. bailouts. However, Canadian banks accessed $114 billion in combined government support at peak — through Bank of Canada loans, U.S. Federal Reserve facilities, and CMHC mortgage purchases — between 2008 and 2010, all of which were fully repaid.

Bank of England (2013–2020): Carney’s seven-year tenure included Brexit — an external political shock with no monetary policy solution — and the onset of COVID-19. The then-Conservative UK government asked him to extend his term beyond the original agreement.

Post-pandemic inflation: Poilievre has cited Carney’s 2021 statements downplaying persistent inflation as evidence of misjudgment. Jerome Powell, Christine Lagarde, and the Bank of England made the same call at the same time. The post-pandemic inflation surge was not predicted accurately by any major central bank.

“How many projects has he approved since June with those new powers? Not one single new major project, not one oil pipeline, not one port, nothing.”

Verdict: Misleading

Five major projects were referred to the national interest process within three months of Royal Assent.

Additional projects followed through June 2026.

The Building Canada Act requires consultation before formal designation. The timeline reflects the law — not inaction.

Poilievre voted in favour of the legislation that established this process.

The record:

Bill C-5 — the One Canadian Economy Act — received Royal Assent on June 26, 2025. The Building Canada Act framework it created requires mandatory consultations with provinces, territories, and Indigenous rights-holders before projects can be listed as national interest projects. Poilievre voted in favour of passing it.

On September 11, 2025 — fewer than three months after Royal Assent — Prime Minister Carney announced the first five projects referred to the Major Projects Office, projected to contribute more than $60 billion to the Canadian economy. The five included LNG, nuclear, port, mining, and critical minerals developments across British Columbia, Ontario, Quebec, and Saskatchewan.

Additional projects have followed, including a road and port in Nunavut and a highway in the Northwest Territories. Further reform consultations were initiated May 8, 2026, and a National Strategy for an Electrified Canadian Economy was released May 14, 2026.

“There’s one thing that’s worse than being uneducated and it’s being badly educated, and Mr. Carney is very badly educated on economics, and that is why he has been wrong on every single economic issue of our times. Every single one of them.”

Verdict: Contradicted by the documented record

Carney holds economics degrees from Harvard and Oxford and is the only person to have served as Governor of both the Bank of Canada and the Bank of England.

The factual element of the claim — Carney’s education — is contradicted by the public record. The broader characterization is rhetorical.

The record:

Carney holds economics degrees from Harvard and Oxford and is the only person to have served as Governor of both the Bank of Canada and the Bank of England. The “wrong on every single issue” portion of the claim is examined under Claim 2 above, where the cited sources do not support it.

The Globe and Mail's editorial board described the "badly educated" comment as "utter inanity" — meaning empty and without substance.

Each claim highlights part of the available evidence but does not reflect the broader documented record. The pattern is consistent across all four. The record is more nuanced.

What the available evidence shows is a country with real economic pressures — driven substantially by a trade war with its largest partner — managing them inside functioning institutions with the lowest net debt burden in the G7 and a project pipeline advancing through law.

Public debate is better served when those challenges are described accurately rather than through absolute claims the cited sources, evidence, and facts do not support.
https://factsmtr.substack.com/p/politic ... poilievres

Re: O Canada

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2026 10:21 pm
by Immanuel Can
phyllo wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2026 9:52 pm Poilievre fact checked
Phyllo fact checked:

"Criticisms of Mark Carney largely stem from his tenure as Governor of the Bank of Canada, his time at the Bank of England, and his subsequent political career:

Monetary Policy and the "Unreliable Boyfriend" Label: During his time at the Bank of England (2013–2020), Carney was famously given the nickname "the unreliable boyfriend" by a British MP due to his tendency to send mixed signals and frequently shift his forward guidance on interest rates.

Political Neutrality Concerns: Critics argued that Carney, while holding a supposedly neutral central banking role, waded into highly partisan political debates—particularly regarding the UK's 2016 Brexit referendum.

Economic Downturns: Political opponents and critics have blamed him for overseeing periods of sluggish growth and recessions, pointing to a shrinking GDP and rising unemployment rates under his leadership.

High Inflation and Cost of Living: Carney has faced intense criticism over housing affordability, debt levels, and the cost of groceries in Canada, with detractors citing Canada's high food inflation and record household debt.

Environmental Policies: Opponents of his net-zero climate agenda argue that his focus on green transition policies restricts traditional energy sectors, such as oil and gas, stifling economic growth and infrastructure development."


And as for Trump, he has publicly declared he prefers Carney as Canada's PM, precisely because he does not see Carney as competent. Carney has yet to do anything to prove him wrong about that.

Re: O Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2026 11:47 am
by phyllo
Poilievre isn't, by American standards, even conservative. He's what we used to call a centrist classical-liberal, but one who can do numbers. He's an extremely unimpressive little man, in person...rather like the current PM...except he's also fairly competent in matters of economics, which the current PM is clearly not.
Poilievre has no formal education in economics. He has been in parliament since age 24. All his previous jobs have been related to politics. The closest he came to economics experience was collections calling as a teenager.

Carney has a PhD in economics. He has worked in economics for decades.

But in the bizarro world of MAGA and Maple MAGA, Poilievre is more competent in economics than Carney.

For sure, eh. :lol:

Re: O Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2026 11:50 am
by phyllo
Neither has anything to do with Trump, and Trump is not fond of either one of them, although he has said he's pleased that Carney, the current PM, is such a pasty little man of no particular consequence, and refers to him as "the governor of Canada," and says "it would be easier to deal with Canada with a Liberal guy at the helm" than with Poilievre. So Trump actually seems to prefer Carney.
And as for Trump, he has publicly declared he prefers Carney as Canada's PM, precisely because he does not see Carney as competent.
Trump wouldn't lie about something like that.

For sure, eh. :lol:

Re: O Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2026 1:31 pm
by Immanuel Can
phyllo wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2026 11:47 am Carney has a PhD in economics. He has worked in economics for decades.
Name one economic achievement of Mark Carney since he became PM of Canada. And meanwhile...

"High Inflation and Cost of Living: Carney has faced intense criticism over housing affordability, debt levels, and the cost of groceries in Canada, with detractors citing Canada's high food inflation and record household debt."
But in the bizarro world of MAGA and Maple MAGA, Poilievre is more competent in economics than Carney.
Don't be surprised if he is. Apparently, he's able to count, which seems to be more than Carney can do. He also seems to understand that the things one promises must be somehow paid for. There's no evidence Carney even understands that much.

Re: O Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2026 2:00 pm
by phyllo
Name one economic achievement of Mark Carney since he became PM of Canada. And meanwhile...

"High Inflation and Cost of Living: Carney has faced intense criticism over housing affordability, debt levels, and the cost of groceries in Canada, with detractors citing Canada's high food inflation and record household debt."
News flash : Canada is under direct economic attack from the US. It also has to deal with indirect factors like the economic fallout from the Iran war.

Re: O Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2026 2:02 pm
by phyllo
Don't be surprised if he is. Apparently, he's able to count, which seems to be more than Carney can do. He also seems to understand that the things one promises must be somehow paid for. There's no evidence Carney even understands that much.
Poilievre has never made any economic decision and therefore he is not held responsible for any.

Re: O Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2026 2:09 pm
by Immanuel Can
phyllo wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2026 2:00 pm
Name one economic achievement of Mark Carney since he became PM of Canada. And meanwhile...

"High Inflation and Cost of Living: Carney has faced intense criticism over housing affordability, debt levels, and the cost of groceries in Canada, with detractors citing Canada's high food inflation and record household debt."
News flash : Canada is under direct economic attack from the US.
News flash: Canada's economy has been going in the tank for THREE Liberal administrations now, and Carney himself has been in the Liberal party since 2021, and advisor since 2024, heading their portfolio on "economic growth". These administrations have been, without rival, the LEAST effective in Canadian history, and at times, downright embarrassing. So bad, in fact, that they've even sparked an active separatist movement in Alberta, whereas before, that sort of thing only happened in Quebec.

Re: O Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2026 2:10 pm
by Immanuel Can
phyllo wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2026 2:02 pm
Don't be surprised if he is. Apparently, he's able to count, which seems to be more than Carney can do. He also seems to understand that the things one promises must be somehow paid for. There's no evidence Carney even understands that much.
Poilievre has never made any economic decision and therefore he is not held responsible for any.
He's never yet been in power...so that's pretty unsurprising, actually.

Re: O Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2026 4:57 pm
by MikeNovack
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2026 2:09 pm News flash: Canada's economy has been going in the tank for THREE Liberal administrations now, and Carney himself has been in the Liberal party since 2021, and advisor since 2024, heading their portfolio on "economic growth". These administrations have been, without rival, the LEAST effective in Canadian history, and at times, downright embarrassing. So bad, in fact, that they've even sparked an active separatist movement in Alberta, whereas before, that sort of thing only happened in Quebec.
Yes of course, the separatist movement in Quebec is much older, resistance of a conquered people.

But the separatist movement in Alberta is older than you think, beginning in the 1970's. The Conservatives were in power (majority governments) 18 of the 50 years since then. In terms of the current issues fueling the Alberta separatists (stealing the remaining Native People's lands/rights) they'd have the same problems with a Conservative national government (which would presumably uphold treaties made between the national government and the various Native Peoples). Alberta's argument "Alberta did not exists when those treaties negotiated/signed; why should we be bound by them".

Re: O Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2026 5:10 pm
by Immanuel Can
MikeNovack wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2026 4:57 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2026 2:09 pm News flash: Canada's economy has been going in the tank for THREE Liberal administrations now, and Carney himself has been in the Liberal party since 2021, and advisor since 2024, heading their portfolio on "economic growth". These administrations have been, without rival, the LEAST effective in Canadian history, and at times, downright embarrassing. So bad, in fact, that they've even sparked an active separatist movement in Alberta, whereas before, that sort of thing only happened in Quebec.
Yes of course, the separatist movement in Quebec is much older, resistance of a conquered people.

But the separatist movement in Alberta is older than you think, beginning in the 1970's.
It wasn't serious, then. As you can see, nothing came of it. But this one is different...much more substantial a threat to the future of Canada than that old discontentment was.
The Conservatives were in power (majority governments) 18 of the 50 years since then.
And the economy was comparatively strong, then. And Canada was respected worldwide, in spite of its small population, and had significant influence with the US and the rest of the world.

Not that everything was perfect, of course; it was just a ton better than when the Liberals took over, first with Trudeau, and then with Carney. The former was a mere clown, and is now known as "Katy Perry's Handbag." He did nothing except embarrass the country. He didn't even claim to understand economics. He regarded it as a point of pride that he did not.

Carney has not been more embarrassing (how could he be), but he has not shown himself to be any more competent. The Albertans are furious that they are expected to pay "transfer payments" to the rest of the country -- particularly to Ontario and Quebec -- while having their own natural resources choked off in the name of "eliminating oil" and "carbon" -- clearly a symbolic and stupid gesture on the part of the Liberals, since Canada is literally the greenest nation per capita on the face of the earth, already. So ideology has taken over from common sense, so far as Carney et al go. And it threatens the very unity of Canada.

There is a very real possibility -- and you'd better believe Trump knows it -- that Carney, in his ideological blindness, will deliver Alberta to the US...or, at the very least, he has already driven them into provincial side-deals with the Americans, since the Canadian government is so hostile to Albertan interests.

Re: O Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2026 6:10 pm
by Radagast
I think you are having a little joke with us, IC? I heard that Quebec separatism came within a hair's breadth of ending Canada, in their second independence referendum? That's what I recall, anyway.

Yes, Carney was well known over here from his extended term as Governor of the Bank of England. (Oh, do you think that's what Trump was on about with his "Governor of Canada" trolling? Was it a Trump-joke?)

Carney was generally thought to have done an OK job at the Bank of England, and to have kept the ship steady in the aftermath of the vote to leave the EU. Clearly not an ignoramus about economics, we can say that much, at least.

Carney did intervene in the Brexit debate before the referendum, just as IC said, in ways that many found illegitimate for a civil servant. Basically he warned the public on economic grounds against voting Leave. He did not take any account of non-economic arguments for voting Leave - arguments about sovereignty, democracy and "taking back control", as the Leave campaign slogan put it. Remain-supporting newspapers like The Guardian tried never to even mention that there were any anti-EU arguments based on concerns about democracy, so they simply reported Carney as making an argument against Leave. But I saw him as more narrowly warning against the economic damage that might be caused by leaving the EU. I thought that was at least within his legitimate area of knowledge and competence to say, even if he was obviously testing the limits of his neutrality.

(As it turned out, the economic damage to the UK of leaving the EU was real, but much more minor than Carney and most economists had predicted).

Sorry, now I'm rambling and going off topic. Anyway, my point is that I think Carney is a little over-enamoured of the rather undemocratic and often chaos-ridden EU, and I see this again in some of his reported remarks now he is Canada's PM. Still, I don't think he's either infallible or hopeless when it comes to economics. He's probably much more competent as an economist than most politicians.

Re: O Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2026 6:36 pm
by FlashDangerpants
phyllo wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2026 11:50 am
And as for Trump, he has publicly declared he prefers Carney as Canada's PM, precisely because he does not see Carney as competent.
Trump wouldn't lie about something like that.

For sure, eh. :lol:
Whether he's lying or telling the truth, it's equally bad really. Trump wants a key ally to have incompetent leadership (which is definitely not something you are supposed to want) because he is a delusional narcissist with no intention of honouring any deal he's ever made, he loathes anybody that doesn't ream his arse, and he's always just out to take advantage of everybody that he possibly can. He has no other way of being.

No normal or decent person should approve of such behaviour. But IC doesn't see the problem because ... he has his own issues .... this form of entirely selfish reasoning doesn't seem as disconcerting or alien to him as it would to a real person.

Re: O Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2026 6:41 pm
by Immanuel Can
Radagast wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2026 6:10 pm I think you are having a little joke with us, IC? I heard that Quebec separatism came within a hair's breadth of ending Canada, in their second independence referendum? That's what I recall, anyway.
Not quite. Quebec was, at that time, aiming for something like "sovereignty association," which, if granted, would have meant they still were dependent on Canada for a lot of things, but they wanted also to be what they call a "distinct society" -- meaning that they would have special privileges and sovereignty that other provinces did not have.

The effort failed, of course; and the then-leader blamed in influx of immigrant minorities for tilting the vote. That ended his career. But he wasn't entirely wrong, and Quebec separatism has not since been as strong a concern as it was in the '70s and '80s.
Yes, Carney was well known over here from his extended term as Governor of the Bank of England. (Oh, do you think that's what Trump was on about with his "Governor of Canada" trolling? Was it a Trump-joke?)
No, Trump was meaning that Canada would become the 51st state in the Union, and Carney would then no longer be a PM but merely a governor.
Still, I don't think he's either infallible or hopeless when it comes to economics.
Yet what has he done? Canada's economy continues to slide, prices of everything are higher than in the US by a significant margin. Taxes are much higher, too. And Carney will not release Canada natural resources, so the country can recover. He's antagonizing the US, particularly in order to solicit Canadian votes; but it also cripples him in negotiations with Canada's crucial trading partner, the US. And he's making Alberta furious, by being manifestly unfair to them, in order to cater to Quebec and Ontario elites.

So if Carney has any economic chops, when are we going to see them? They haven't appeared yet. But his diplomacy certainly leaves much to be desired.

Re: O Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2026 6:57 pm
by FlashDangerpants
Radagast wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2026 8:55 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2026 6:20 pm There's only one Canadian here though, and he is a massive simp for the American alt-right. So what was your expected outcome?
I have the impression from his comments in this thread that Mike Novack may also be Canadian, or at least has strong family connections with Canada. I wasn't ever expecting that only Canadians would comment here - I'm not Canadian myself. But I do think Mike and IC both, with their knowledge from different perspectives, have added something valuable to this thread, and to my knowledge.

I've had a quick look around and can see various dedicated Canadian politics forums, though not large ones. (Apparently Reddit is the place to be). I'd love to imagine that a philosophy forum, such as this one, might tackle issues at a more fundamental level than them. Is that naive?
I fear it is naïve. This is a tiny forum, and half the people in attendance are desperately insane. IC is one of them.