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Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:16 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:06 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 6:56 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 4:24 pm
Funding social programs for those whose paychecks the rich steal from by taxing the rich disproportionately is not "stealing".
Who are these thieves? We should arrest them.
If taxation is not stealing, how come the government has to threaten the public with various forms of violence if they don't pay?
Why do the police have to threaten people with speeding tickets? Why can't everyone drive as recklessly as they want?
Because people are not trustworthy, of course. And when they do bad things, there are penalities. It might be a ticket, or it might be jail. That's' what happens when one has done something bad.
But for what "crime" are regular people being "penalized" when their property is simply confiscated by the government?
Can't have "socialism" and a cooperative society.
That's apparently quite true -- we can't. It's failed in 100% of the test cases, and disastrously, too. It's killed over 120 million in just the last century.
So how many failed tries will Socialists require, and how nations must lose their economies, and how many people must die, before advocates of Socialism ask themselves, "How come this never works?"
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:17 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:12 pm
MikeNovack wrote: ↑Thu Nov 13, 2025 8:23 pm
Initial thoughts?
Let's go back to my initial question.
When this "well-functioning" political system "requires people to be good," does it require them to be Socialists? Or Communists? Or good Nazis? Or Libertarians? Does it require them to subscribe to a political narrative? Does it require them to go to church? Does it require anything moral or them? For example, would it require them to raise their own children? Would it require them to work? Would it require them to be married, or to be happy with various sexual proclivities, or to march in military parades, or to genuflect before statues? Does it require them to be advocates of Social Justice and CRT? Does it require them to pay taxes, or to surrender personal information and private resources to the government, or merely to be "good" according to whatever lights they happen to prefer?
Again, what is included in this package of "good" that is being talked about? And who gets to pick that package?
Just have everyone obey the Ten Commandments at the penalty of ostracization. Make sure they obey the sabbath and don't "steal" from misers. The only true "authority" in the world is the Church. IC the Christian "anarchist" who actually supports dictatorships of the few who own most of society and run it.
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:20 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:11 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 6:54 pm
Whom did Bill Gates rob, when he invented a product everybody was desperate to buy?
The thousands of rank and file workers who actually produced all the products but got paid infinitely less. Bill Gates sat in an office and "supervised". Real hard work. Heck, he didn't even originate the idea of the "graphic user interface". Xerox and Apple did that before Microsoft.
So your theory is that people who worked at Xerox and Apple were
slaves? They didn't sign a contract, or agree to work? They never accepted their wages in exchange for working, and they all got ripped off? And when they were unhappy, they were not allowed to quit and shop their talent to other buyers?
They were forced into it by Bill Gates et al? That's your theory?
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:21 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:16 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:06 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 6:56 pm
Who are these thieves? We should arrest them.
If taxation is not stealing, how come the government has to threaten the public with various forms of violence if they don't pay?
Why do the police have to threaten people with speeding tickets? Why can't everyone drive as recklessly as they want?
Because people are not trustworthy, of course. And when they do bad things, there are penalities. It might be a ticket, or it might be jail.
That's' what happens when one has done something bad.
You mean like a few hoard finite resources while others are destitute? Oh wait, there's nothing wrong with hoarding finite resources while others starve.
But for what "crime" are regular people being "penalized" when their property is simply confiscated by the government?
No one is talking about penalizing "regular people" dipshit. Try to use your brain.
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:21 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:17 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:12 pm
MikeNovack wrote: ↑Thu Nov 13, 2025 8:23 pm
Initial thoughts?
Let's go back to my initial question.
When this "well-functioning" political system "requires people to be good," does it require them to be Socialists? Or Communists? Or good Nazis? Or Libertarians? Does it require them to subscribe to a political narrative? Does it require them to go to church? Does it require anything moral or them? For example, would it require them to raise their own children? Would it require them to work? Would it require them to be married, or to be happy with various sexual proclivities, or to march in military parades, or to genuflect before statues? Does it require them to be advocates of Social Justice and CRT? Does it require them to pay taxes, or to surrender personal information and private resources to the government, or merely to be "good" according to whatever lights they happen to prefer?
Again, what is included in this package of "good" that is being talked about? And who gets to pick that package?
Just have everyone obey the Ten Commandments at the penalty of ostracization.
How did you pick that form of "good"? Is it just the one you like, or are you acknowledging it as representing a universal "good"?
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:22 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:21 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:16 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:06 pm
Why do the police have to threaten people with speeding tickets? Why can't everyone drive as recklessly as they want?
Because people are not trustworthy, of course. And when they do bad things, there are penalities. It might be a ticket, or it might be jail.
That's' what happens when one has done something bad.
You mean like a few hoard finite resources while others are destitute?
You haven't read what I wrote. Try again.
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:23 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:22 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:21 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:16 pm
Because people are not trustworthy, of course. And when they do bad things, there are penalities. It might be a ticket, or it might be jail.
That's' what happens when one has done something bad.
You mean like a few hoard finite resources while others are destitute?
You haven't read what I wrote. Try again.
Do you want to tax the wealthy to afford social programs or would you rather tax the middle class and poor? You're in la la land.
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:24 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:21 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:17 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:12 pm
Let's go back to my initial question.
When this "well-functioning" political system "requires people to be good," does it require them to be Socialists? Or Communists? Or good Nazis? Or Libertarians? Does it require them to subscribe to a political narrative? Does it require them to go to church? Does it require anything moral or them? For example, would it require them to raise their own children? Would it require them to work? Would it require them to be married, or to be happy with various sexual proclivities, or to march in military parades, or to genuflect before statues? Does it require them to be advocates of Social Justice and CRT? Does it require them to pay taxes, or to surrender personal information and private resources to the government, or merely to be "good" according to whatever lights they happen to prefer?
Again, what is included in this package of "good" that is being talked about? And who gets to pick that package?
Just have everyone obey the Ten Commandments at the penalty of ostracization.
How did you pick that form of "good"? Is it just the one you like, or are you acknowledging it as representing a universal "good"?
Because it's the form of "good" kristians like you believe in. Idiot.
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:26 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:20 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:11 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 6:54 pm
Whom did Bill Gates rob, when he invented a product everybody was desperate to buy?
The thousands of rank and file workers who actually produced all the products but got paid infinitely less. Bill Gates sat in an office and "supervised". Real hard work. Heck, he didn't even originate the idea of the "graphic user interface". Xerox and Apple did that before Microsoft.
So your theory is that people who worked at Xerox and Apple were
slaves? They didn't sign a contract, or agree to work? They never accepted their wages in exchange for working, and they all got ripped off? And when they were unhappy, they were not allowed to quit and shop their talent to other buyers?
They were forced into it by Bill Gates et al? That's your theory?
Bill Gates didn't produce Microsoft. His employees did. What kind of moron are you?
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:33 pm
by Gary Childress
Poor IC. HIs heart bleeds for every dollar the government "steals" from the wealthy. Can't the poor just starve and be done with it? We don't need social programs. And if we do, we don't need to fund them, and if we do need to fund them, then lets tax the middle class and poor to fund social programs. Better yet, let's not have social programs. It's better to let people starve than tax the wealthy. Jesus likes the wealthy. IC knows because he's an expert on kristianity.
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:38 pm
by Gary Childress
Oh, wait. God will punish the wealthy in hell. That'll set things straight, assuming there is a God, and that God has places called Heaven and Hell and even cares. No matter. The poor will go to heaven and that will offset the starvation and deprivation. Take that you rich people! Immanuel Quixote to the rescue of the oppressed!
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:47 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:23 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:22 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:21 pm
You mean like a few hoard finite resources while others are destitute?
You haven't read what I wrote. Try again.
Do you want to tax the wealthy to afford social programs or would you rather tax the middle class and poor?
You mean, like what is already done now?
"Social programs" are part of the problem. We're turning to government to cover territory we should cover ourselves. We're not charitable, so we have the government steal instead.
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:56 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:47 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:23 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:22 pm
You haven't read what I wrote. Try again.
Do you want to tax the wealthy to afford social programs or would you rather tax the middle class and poor?
You mean, like what is already done now?
"Social programs" are part of the problem. We're turning to government to cover territory we should cover ourselves. We're not charitable, so we have the government steal instead.
That's the issue, numbskull, the poor are taxed now because morons like you faint at the notion of taxing the rich. Grow a spine and stand for something worth standing for. No one wants to tax the middle class and poor.
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:59 pm
by Immanuel Can
I know why you're irate.
We're all sinners, Gary...the rich, the poor, you and me. Being rich and ungenerous is a sin; but being poor and covetous is also a sin. Stealing is a sin, as is slander, hatred, unrighteous wrath, theft...whether done by governments or by individuals. And that's a bitter pill to swallow if one has been trusting that simply talking about helping the poor was enough to make one a "good" person.
Re: Does a well functioning political system require people to be good?
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2025 8:02 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 7:56 pm
No one wants to tax the middle class and poor.
Yet that's exactly what "the tax base" is. The rich, though they pay large amounts of taxes already, have shelters and can afford high tax rates: but the middle class and poor are struggling. But what's happening? The government is making certain people rich, and doing it at the expense of everybody else; and chief among those who are doing that are people you admire: Pelosi, Biden, Obama, the Clintons...
Never trust government. Government is not your friend. It is not the advocate of the poor. It must always be limited and restrained, because people are sometimes very evil.