Philosophy Now Forum

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 10:22 amThe Olympics is a pagan festival, clebrating religious rites in the pre-Christian world. Why would a French team not design their celebration of that with a bunch of stuff about Greek Gods - there's a lot of genuine French art about that subject, and I don't know if you've ever met any Frenchmen, but what I find much less likely is that they would make their opening ceremony about an Italian painting, by an Italian artist, that's in Italy when all the art about Dionysian Bacchanals, some of which is French either by origin or resides in French galleries, is the relevant body of work.

Dionysian:
a. : devoted to the worship of Dionysus. b. : characteristic of Dionysus or the cult of worship of Dionysus. especially : being of a frenzied or orgiastic character compare apollonian.

So what relevance does a bunch of fat men dressed as women WITH children being in a "frenzied orgiastic" display have to do with the Olympics?

The Olympics that are supposed to display the epitome of the athletic male physique - Zeus would have been far more appropriate surely?

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 10:32 am

LuckyR wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 7:18 am

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2024 12:05 pm Why do people think this has to do with American woke shit? Men have been dressing up as women in France for a long long long long time. America isn't the center of everything.

What part about Americans viewing everything through an America First lens suprises you?

The part where accelefine isn't even an American...

She's done nothing but parrot Fox News talking points for years now. Can't somebody just send her a rifle and a green card already?

accelafine wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 10:42 am FFS. The whole ceremony was garbage.

So? You are the kind of person who would waste their day hate-watching that just to complain on the internet. The rage is the only feeling you have left in your dreary existence.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 11:04 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 10:42 am FFS. The whole ceremony was garbage.

So? You are the kind of person who would waste their day hate-watching that just to complain on the internet. The rage is the only feeling you have left in your dreary existence.

Yeah. That must be it. Isn't being wrong a bitch? What's 'fox news'? Do you mean 'faux' news? You yanks are so uneducated.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 10:22 am Have you ever seen a sitcom on TV where a family eats dinner? The side of the table towards the camera is always empty, not becasue they are stealing from Da Vinci, but because they are dealing with the same problem he had of having a portion of the scene presented obscured by the back of somebody's head.

This is not a ripoff of the Last Supper it is just the basic science of framing an image for presentation

Well, their officials can't seem to be clear about that. Further in the friends image we don't have a central figure with a halo nor the similarities in general form.

The Olympics is a pagan festival, clebrating religious rites in the pre-Christian world. Why would a French team not design their celebration of that with a bunch of stuff about Greek Gods

I'm not complaining about the pagan aspects. I am more or less pagan.

- there's a lot of genuine French art about that subject,

Sure. How much of it looks like the Last Supper? Where the central figure has a halo?

and I don't know if you've ever met any Frenchmen, but what I find much less likely is that they would make their opening ceremony about an Italian painting, by an Italian artist, that's in Italy when all the art about Dionysian Bacchanals, some of which is French either by origin or resides in French galleries, is the relevant body of work.

1) Davinci's Last Supper is the world's main image of the last supper. Do you really think every Frenchman would avoid framing an image on it? knowing the impact of it? It's not about that painting, as you word it above, it is using it, consciously or not. 2) Which of those Dionysian Bacchanals is the feast scene in the Olympics based on? Preferable one where the central figure has a halo.

This is just a case of Christians making everything about themselves, as they invariably do, and only knowing about one painting.

If they invariably do, perhaps that was part of the point.

I can see how they might not have consciously intended it, but the symbolism is there.

We'd take it that way in some individual artist's work in a museum.

On second thought: An artist failed to see the connection to the Last Supper? That's hard to believe.

Wow. Imagine criticising talentless thunking men in bad wigs. What a despicable hate crime

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 11:07 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 10:22 am Have you ever seen a sitcom on TV where a family eats dinner? The side of the table towards the camera is always empty, not becasue they are stealing from Da Vinci, but because they are dealing with the same problem he had of having a portion of the scene presented obscured by the back of somebody's head.

This is not a ripoff of the Last Supper it is just the basic science of framing an image for presentation

Well, their officials can't seem to be clear about that. Further in the friends image we don't have a central figure with a halo nor the similarities in general form.

Which of these French officials was involved in the commission of the piece? What makes some policeman on a street corner any less of an expert in this matter than the undersecretary for transport?

The Firends image wasn't there to look like a parody of the Last Supper, that wouldn't suitr my point so I am unlikely to make that choice. I was showing you how the framing of images requires certain layouts. That Da Vinci used one of those layouts, perhaps even that he pioneered it, does not make use of that layout even a homage to Da Vinci, let alone a grotesque parody of it. It's just using the same visual medium under the same limits as everyone else.

Not the Last Supper, not a hmomage to it, same framing elements anyway.


Same...


And another...


Also not the Last Supper

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 11:07 am

The Olympics is a pagan festival, clebrating religious rites in the pre-Christian world. Why would a French team not design their celebration of that with a bunch of stuff about Greek Gods

I'm not complaining about the pagan aspects. I am more or less pagan.

- there's a lot of genuine French art about that subject,

Sure. How much of it looks like the Last Supper?

All the ones including a table where the side facing the audience is empty. Same as all cars look like a Model T Ford because they all have four wheels due to the usefulness of putting one at each corner.

Whatever a More-Or-Less-Pagan might be couldn't possibly interest me less. The Olympics originated to celebrate pagan Gods at Mount Olympus, the art surrounding it may as well be pagan and there is no Earthly reason for it to have anything to do with any modern religion at all. Other than the impulse that religous people have to inflict their own religion on everyone all the fucking time.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 11:07 am

and I don't know if you've ever met any Frenchmen, but what I find much less likely is that they would make their opening ceremony about an Italian painting, by an Italian artist, that's in Italy when all the art about Dionysian Bacchanals, some of which is French either by origin or resides in French galleries, is the relevant body of work.

1) Davinci's Last Supper is the world's main image of the last supper. Do you really think every Frenchman would avoid framing an image on it? knowing the impact of it? It's not about that painting, as you word it above, it is using it, consciously or not. 2) Which of those Dionysian Bacchanals is the feast scene in the Olympics based on?

All of them, this was a TV production not a painting, so take any or all of the painitngs of Bacchanalia, and collect the bits from them that will work for TV. Why insist that every image has to be a pastiche of a particular painting? You have been working backwards from your prejudice to your supporting premises which is how VA gets himself into trouble.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 11:07 am

This is just a case of Christians making everything about themselves, as they invariably do, and only knowing about one painting.

If they invariably do, perhaps that was part of the point.

I can see how they might not have consciously intended it, but the symbolism is there.

We'd take it that way in some individual artist's work in a museum.

But the Christian art was all appropriating from prior pagfan sources, so where does this excercise in taking offense at bullshit come to an end?

Could anyone really be as stupid as wokies like dangerpants appear to be?

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 11:44 am All the ones including a table where the side facing the audience is empty. Same as all cars look like a Model T Ford because they all have four wheels due to the usefulness of putting one at each corner.

Show me one where the people are all on the far side of the table, not at the ends and the central figure has a halo.

Whatever a More-Or-Less-Pagan might be couldn't possibly interest me less. The Olympics originated to celebrate pagan Gods at Mount Olympus, the art surrounding it may as well be pagan and there is no Earthly reason for it to have anything to do with any modern religion at all. Other than the impulse that religous people have to inflict their own religion on everyone all the fucking time.

Or the halo on the central figure.

All of them, this was a TV production not a painting, so take any or all of the painitngs of Bacchanalia, and collect the bits from them that will work for TV. Why insist that every image has to be a pastiche of a particular painting? You have been working backwards from your prejudice to your supporting premises which is how VA gets himself into trouble.

Put some Bacchanlia image over the image of that image from the Olympics. And the halo.

But the Christian art was all appropriating from prior pagfan sources, so where does this excercise in taking offense at bullshit come to an end?

That's a good question for conservatives, liberals, lefties, righties and more to mull over. So far you seem to be treating this as a conservative/religious thing. Where does the exercise is taking offense at bullshit end is something pretty much everyone can do some navel-gazing over?

Thank you, that's coming closer to what I asked for. But that image is nowhere near the closeness of the Olympic scene. Further you went into a fairly condescending lecture about how the French wouldn't do X and did you know about the pagan paintings and Bacchanalia. Well, yeah. But I still don't see an image from that group of paintings with a halo or looking so close to the Last Supper.

And my concern is not, per se, conservative or religious hurt feelings. That can be peachy with me and I love many artworks that do this, because of the context of the individual artist interpreting showing etc. I think it's great that all our beliefs are up for mockery, reinterpretation, whatever.

Here however my concern is about the intent by an organization supposedly intending to create unity, using that kind of imagery, when nearly any artist or art major would have instantly realized that the Last Supper was being evoked. My concern is that I think it was the intent by the organization to create more hate and more splits, while claiming to want to do the opposite.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 11:54 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 11:44 am All the ones including a table where the side facing the audience is empty. Same as all cars look like a Model T Ford because they all have four wheels due to the usefulness of putting one at each corner.

Show me one where the people are all on the far side of the table, not at the ends and the central figure has a halo.

Why? The central figure here has a wreath, somebody in the background probably has a crown, you inserted the halo into this for some reason.

Is there a halo in the Last Supper?

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 11:44 am And another...

Thanks for the Simpsons. Here's how the Simpsons do the Last Supper, actually.



Notice how much closer that is to the Olympic image. (I had a second image, but I'm not clear where that one was from.)
Imagine someone arguing that that how you have to show a bar.
And those intended to bring in the Last Supper images don't even have a central figure with a halo, which is primarily a Christian symbol.
We sort of have a very slightly implied halo in the pool hall type light over Homer. But the Olympic tableau went more direct.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 12:02 pm And those intended to bring in the Last Supper images don't even have a central figure with a halo, which is primarily a Christian symbol.

The ones mimicing the Last Supper don't have a halo because the Last Supper doesn't have a halo.... look at it.

No halo....



Not a Halo




Also not a halo....