Philosophy Now Forum

TODAY : Isreal targets a hospital killing over 500 people including many more chidren.

Which is obviously completely and objectively necessary.

Obviously cutting off food, water and energy is also morally righteous, despite it being against International law..

On the other hand Hamas has been accused of beheading babies with abolsutley ZERO evidence.
But that too is clearly abolsutely necessary for Israel's prosecution of the war against the morally bankrupt Hamas, obviously...

Else how else could Isreal justify the 1000 children that have died so far?

Israel has a moral compass, but where is it pointing?

If people would "willingly decide not to talk about nonsense, we would never have heard of Lewis Carrol. Fortunately, that is not the case.

As for Christianity being designed to oppress the working classes, that seems unlikely, since the designers (Jesus and his apostles) were carpenters and fishermen.

If we are to eschew nonsense, your posts would be among the first to go.

In my view, it's not that Hamas has no moral compass, but that it insists its own moral compass had better be yours or else. Their God and anything goes. Same with the fanatical Jews in Israel who want to dismantle democracy there and install the ultra-orthodox Judaic rendition of sharia law.

Objectivism is the culprit over there.

Whereas in Ukraine it's...trickier? Some see Putin as acting on principal. He genuinely wants to restore Mother Russia to before the breakup of the Soviet Union...only this time as a state capitalist political economy.

Or perhaps he is just one more autocratic moral nihilist and it's all about power politics.

Alexiev wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:07 pm If people would "willingly decide not to talk about nonsense, we would never have heard of Lewis Carrol. Fortunately, that is not the case.

As for Christianity being designed to oppress the working classes, that seems unlikely, since the designers (Jesus and his apostles) were carpenters and fishermen.

You are not paying attention.

If we are to eschew nonsense, your posts would be among the first to go.

It matters not a jot that Jesus was a carpenter. Hitler was a corporal. Mohammed was a marter trader. Humble origins does not mean respect for humble people.

"As for Christianity being designed to oppress the working classes, that seems unlikely, since the designers (Jesus and his apostles) were carpenters and fishermen."

U gotta understand what's goin on here. The gospels are just recovered stories that are half contrived boloney and have ordinary biography. Nothing special about em until they were formally canonized and proclaimed to be the official religious doctrine of the roman empire.

Now why this religion rather than some other was established by the romans wuz becuz it was useful to the ruling classes as a means to manage and govern the people. The virtues of Christianity are precisely the kinds of values that u want people to have to prevent them from discovering and revolting against your tyrannical rule. The church being the strong arm that acts as an intermediary between the people and the rule of the emperor or the king or whoever's in charge.

At any moment the people could rise up in disgust at their lot in life and the exploitation they endure. The emperors and kings knew that and were always on edge becuz of this. They needed a failsafe, and that was Christianity. A story about a carpenter hippy with a messiah complex who led a small cult following of outcasts and nobodies, who performed all manner of magic tricks and even rose from the dead.

If u can get the people to believe this silly, insignificant story is true, and that the main guy in the story is the son of god, they will do whatever this guy did. Be excessively humble. Turn the other cheek. Pay your taxes. Have no malice. Let your work be for god. Live modestly, etc.

These guys don't sound like anarchists or revolutionaries now do they?

That wuz precisely the point for spreading Christianity.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:07 pm

It matters not a jot that Jesus was a carpenter. Hitler was a corporal. Mohammed was a marter trader. Humble origins does not mean respect for humble people.

You are not paying attention. It is silly to claim that Christianity was "designed for the sole purpose of being an opiate for the miserable working classes that grovel at the feet of the bourgeois." Especially since Jesus didn't grovel, and preached to the bourgeois and workers alike. Bigotry and ignorance often go hand in hand. Even if, as promethiain suggests, Christianity is an opiate for the masses, one cannot properly infer it was designed for that sole purpose. In fact, doing so would be ridiculous (although neither that silly statement nor talking about Santa Claus should be banned).

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:07 pm

It matters not a jot that Jesus was a carpenter. Hitler was a corporal. Mohammed was a marter trader. Humble origins does not mean respect for humble people.

You are not paying attention. It is silly to claim that Christianity was "designed for the sole purpose of being an opiate for the miserable working classes that grovel at the feet of the bourgeois." Especially since Jesus didn't grovel, and preached to the bourgeois and workers alike. Bigotry and ignorance often go hand in hand. Even if, as promethiain suggests, Christianity is an opiate for the masses, one cannot properly infer it was designed for that sole purpose. In fact, doing so would be ridiculous (although neither that silly statement nor talking about Santa Claus should be banned).

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:44 am

Averroes wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:09 am Not only was Abraham(pbuh) ready to do the sacrifice but also his then only son Ishmael(pbuh) was ready to be sacrificed by his father! Both were ready and accepting of the sacrifice had God not intervened. Allah, the Almighty says in the Holy Quran:

Yes, and they were wrong to think this was loving. Loving of God. Loving of Life. Loving in General. They were confused, both of them and what is God and what is love and this has gone on for a long time. Humans are fallible. I would guess given the way you cite the Koran that it is completely impossible for you to question what has been written there. It is completely impossible that a human might have misinterpreted for psychological/cultural reasons and written incorrectly. It is a foundation of your belief that this is not possible, that the Koran could be mistaken about anything.

And so discussion is utterly impossible.

I think it is sad that people still think that Abraham was right to be ready to kill on God's order, like he was a robot for God. The loving option would have been to say 'No.' That would have pleased any loving God.

And we can see in the world right now what it leads to when people cut off parts of themselves and follow voices that tell them to kill. And I am not focusing on any particular side.

Abraham made a huge mistake when he decided to go along with the order to kill his son. And his son also had guilt instead of love that made him think he had to go along with this.

It is one of the great tragedies of humankind.

If you can't feel this, what can you feel?

ONCE AGAIN, ANOTHER Truly MISINTERPRETED version of what was ACTUALLY SAID, and MEANT.

But do NOT let ANY one get IN THE WAY of what 'you' EACH WANT to think or BELIEVE is true.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:34 pm VA. Islam is just as peaceful as Christianity and judaism as long as the fuckin hypocrit english crusaders stay the fuck out of their territory. But when u come with that weak ass jesus shit and try to brainwash an ancient culture with the same nonsense u got the Roman empire working/slave class with, you're gonna find out how ruthless a muslim can be.

And look at the typical Christian. They're a fuckin basket case. Why? Becuz of the obscene nature of the religion. Everything about it is ugly, pitiful, helpless, fantastically bizarre, etc. You were born a miserable worm into a shit world designed by a sadistic god who is gonna send u to hell unless u worship him. My ass.

There is none of this morbid horror show shit in islam. Life is good. Beautiful. People are good... not born into 'sin' or any of that guilt ridden bullshit that sets everyone against each other, suspicious, brooding, paranoid, etc.

I'm tellin u man Christianity is a modified judaism designed for the sole purpose of being an opiate for the miserable working classes and slaves that grovel at the feet of the bourgeois. It's been like that since it's very inception.

What is specifically Christianity or Islam can only be what is in their Constitution and nowhere else.
To be a Christian and Muslim proper one MUST enter into a Contract with God before one qualified to be a Christian or Muslim.

Officially an American Citizen is recognized as grounded within the US Constitution, same as any other citizens of other countries.
One can act like or pretend to be an American but that is merely pseudo if one do not qualify for an American passport within the US Constitution.

As in here, one cannot claim to be a Philosophy-Now member until one as subscribed and agreed to the Constitution [terms and agreement] of Philosophy-Now. In this case, there is implied contract between one and Philosophy-Now and members are obliged to comply with the terms and agreements contracted.

So be a Christian and Muslim proper one MUST enter into a Contract with God before one qualified to be a Christian or Muslim as required by its Constitution, i.e. the Gospels and the Quran and one my comply with the terms of the contract.

In any action, if any one claimed to be Christian but act outside the terms of contract of the terms in the Gospels, that has nothing to do with Christianity.
Show me where in the terms of Contract of Christianity i.e. in the Gospels [not OT, Epistles or Act] where the term of contract permit a Christian to kill non-believers or for that matter any human being?

A so-called Christian can do anything of the worst evil acts [even with the consent of a church], including killing humans in wars or other situations, but that has nothing to do with Christianity itself because as a contracted-Christian there is no provision [contractual terms] for him to kill in the name of Christianity.
Can you counter this?

On the other hand, it is different with a contracted Muslim. There are commands within the constitution [Quran] and contractual terms of a Muslim where he is commanded to kill non-believers in the name of the religion.
As such a Muslim can kill non-believers [upon the slightest threat -fasadin] in the name of Islam and as permitted within the contractual terms he had contracted [signed, covenanted] as a Muslim officially.

There is none of this morbid horror show shit in islam.

You are just ignorant of what Islam really is or being lied to.
This was what happened here:

ISIS Member Shoots Dead Two Swedes In Brussels, Shares Video With ‘Fighter Of Allah’ Message
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YokQAnV-32Y
The Jihadists explicit claim he had killed [in the belief] that he has obligation as a Muslim within his contract with Allah to kill non-believers who he 'perceived' as a threat to the religion.
The frightening thing is even if [very possible] 10% of Muslim [like >10%] are so compliant, we have 150 millions of them around the world.


No Christian-proper will ever do the sort of evil acts as part of their contract with God.

Any counter to the above?

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 12:59 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:07 pm

It matters not a jot that Jesus was a carpenter. Hitler was a corporal. Mohammed was a marter trader. Humble origins does not mean respect for humble people.

You are not paying attention. It is silly to claim that Christianity was "designed for the sole purpose of being an opiate for the miserable working classes that grovel at the feet of the bourgeois."

It is not silly at all, because it was in fact invented by Constantine and his monks for political purposes.
It was an urban cult that rivaled the old religions of the Empire and so Constantine did a take over and did what sociologists and anthropologists micght now call collonised that religion and turned into into a state religion,. IN a short time the people outisde the towns where the old religions still existed (pagani) were villified as hetetical and condmned as "Pagan" and witches are were put to death of forcibly converted.
Now run along and read some history.

Especially since Jesus didn't grovel, and preached to the bourgeois and workers alike. Bigotry and ignorance often go hand in hand. Even if, as promethiain suggests, Christianity is an opiate for the masses, one cannot properly infer it was designed for that sole purpose. In fact, doing so would be ridiculous (although neither that silly statement nor talking about Santa Claus should be banned).

It does not matter a jot is Jesus grovelled or not. If Jesus existed in any sense we know of him from the scriptures, Christianity does not bother to understand what he might hav wanted.
Bigotry and ignorance do go hand in hand. You are ignorant of history and clearly a religious bigot who prefers to live in your own delusions.
DOn't forget to out your money in the collection plate on the way out.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:34 am

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 12:59 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:07 pm

It matters not a jot that Jesus was a carpenter. Hitler was a corporal. Mohammed was a marter trader. Humble origins does not mean respect for humble people.

You are not paying attention. It is silly to claim that Christianity was "designed for the sole purpose of being an opiate for the miserable working classes that grovel at the feet of the bourgeois."

It is not silly at all, because it was in fact invented by Constantine and his monks for political purposes.
It was an urban cult that rivaled the old religions of the Empire and so Constantine did a take over and did what sociologists and anthropologists micght now call collonised that religion and turned into into a state religion,. IN a short time the people outisde the towns where the old religions still existed (pagani) were villified as hetetical and condmned as "Pagan" and witches are were put to death of forcibly converted.
Now run along and read some history.

Especially since Jesus didn't grovel, and preached to the bourgeois and workers alike. Bigotry and ignorance often go hand in hand. Even if, as promethiain suggests, Christianity is an opiate for the masses, one cannot properly infer it was designed for that sole purpose. In fact, doing so would be ridiculous (although neither that silly statement nor talking about Santa Claus should be banned).

It does not matter a jot is Jesus grovelled or not. If Jesus existed in any sense we know of him from the scriptures, Christianity does not bother to understand what he might hav wanted.
Bigotry and ignorance do go hand in hand. You are ignorant of history and clearly a religious bigot who prefers to live in your own delusions.
DOn't forget to out your money in the collection plate on the way out.

For someone who eschews the supernatural, you appear to have remarkable powers of ESP. You are able to search the long deceased mind of Constantine and supernaturally divine his motives. I hope (for your sake) you are not as incorrect about him as you are about me.

You are correct, of course, that bigotry and ignorance go hand in hand. Thanks for demonstrating.

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 5:28 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:34 am

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 12:59 am

You are not paying attention. It is silly to claim that Christianity was "designed for the sole purpose of being an opiate for the miserable working classes that grovel at the feet of the bourgeois."

It is not silly at all, because it was in fact invented by Constantine and his monks for political purposes.
It was an urban cult that rivaled the old religions of the Empire and so Constantine did a take over and did what sociologists and anthropologists micght now call collonised that religion and turned into into a state religion,. IN a short time the people outisde the towns where the old religions still existed (pagani) were villified as hetetical and condmned as "Pagan" and witches are were put to death of forcibly converted.
Now run along and read some history.

Especially since Jesus didn't grovel, and preached to the bourgeois and workers alike. Bigotry and ignorance often go hand in hand. Even if, as promethiain suggests, Christianity is an opiate for the masses, one cannot properly infer it was designed for that sole purpose. In fact, doing so would be ridiculous (although neither that silly statement nor talking about Santa Claus should be banned).

It does not matter a jot is Jesus grovelled or not. If Jesus existed in any sense we know of him from the scriptures, Christianity does not bother to understand what he might hav wanted.
Bigotry and ignorance do go hand in hand. You are ignorant of history and clearly a religious bigot who prefers to live in your own delusions.
DOn't forget to out your money in the collection plate on the way out.

For someone who eschews the supernatural, you appear to have remarkable powers of ESP. You are able to search the long deceased mind of Constantine and supernaturally divine his motives. I hope (for your sake) you are not as incorrect about him as you are about me.

You are correct, of course, that bigotry and ignorance go hand in hand. Thanks for demonstrating.

The church loves people like you. Ready to attack those with the truth, with such accusations. But I have knowledge.

You do not need ESP when you have a BA in Ancient History and Archaeology , and an MA is Intellectual History. So much for "ignorance".

But even an uneducated person who is paying attention knows how the world actually works, as long as they are smart enough to question the propaganda of the priesthood.
See the smart thing here is that when you know the history this is a no brainer. Church fathers control people like you by NOT making it too obvious for to the morons.
So whilst the priesthood are sending our sons to fight in wars; buggering our children, and collecting your money, they pretend that Christianity is kindness and light.
Think about it!

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:06 pm

The church loves people like you. Ready to attack those with the truth, with such accusations. But I have knowledge.

You do not need ESP when you have a BA in Ancient History and Archaeology , and an MA is Intellectual History. So much for "ignorance".

But even an uneducated person who is paying attention knows how the world actually works, as long as they are smart enough to question the propaganda of the priesthood.
See the smart thing here is that when you know the history this is a no brainer. Church fathers control people like you by NOT making it too obvious for to the morons.
So whilst the priesthood are sending our sons to fight in wars; buggering our children, and collecting your money, they pretend that Christianity is kindness and light.
Think about it!

The church IS required to love even atheists like me, for which I thank it.

Constantine did not establish Christanity. It had been persecuted in Rome for a couple of centuries before his birth. However, you may feel free to throw your imaginary (or evidently worthless) diplomas at me. They do little damage.

Also, only idiots THINK they "know how the world actually works". The rest of us are aware that we don't know everything (although I appear to know far more than Sculptor, which is but a minor achievement).

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:03 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:06 pm

The church loves people like you. Ready to attack those with the truth, with such accusations. But I have knowledge.

You do not need ESP when you have a BA in Ancient History and Archaeology , and an MA is Intellectual History. So much for "ignorance".

But even an uneducated person who is paying attention knows how the world actually works, as long as they are smart enough to question the propaganda of the priesthood.
See the smart thing here is that when you know the history this is a no brainer. Church fathers control people like you by NOT making it too obvious for to the morons.
So whilst the priesthood are sending our sons to fight in wars; buggering our children, and collecting your money, they pretend that Christianity is kindness and light.
Think about it!

The church IS required to love even atheists like me, for which I thank it.

Is it! LOL

Constantine did not establish Christanity. It had been persecuted in Rome for a couple of centuries before his birth. However, you may feel free to throw your imaginary (or evidently worthless) diplomas at me. They do little damage.

Also, only idiots THINK they "know how the world actually works". The rest of us are aware that we don't know everything (although I appear to know far more than Sculptor, which is but a minor achievement).

I'll let other be the judge of that.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:31 am Why and How Hamas has No Moral Compass?

The answer to this question is clear, Hamas calls Islam its main principle, "Its frame of reference is Islam, which determines its principles, objectives and means",
but there is nothing in the Koran about conscience.
Hamas is a clear example of disregard for conscience.