Philosophy Now Forum

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:50 am I WANT TO TALK TO GOD

Again...if you are serious about wanting to know God and to remedy your mental anguish then follow atto instuction!

It ain't hard to commit 1hr/week for the cause.

If there is a real church around you, (built of stone) preferably Catholic or Anglican, then at least once a week spend an hour in that church - the older and more stained glass windows etc the better, aesthetics inspires faith.

Sit in a pew and contemplate the life of Christ, for NO other reason, than contemplating what HE went throught to inspire faith and faith in love. Thank God for all the good things through your life.

If you feel the need to talk to God\Christ, then you say "In the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit" while signalling with you hand (forehead, abdomen, left and right shoulder) - as a child I would think of it like a walkie-talkie!

But don't be thinking so much about yourself and your desires. Think about things that DO inspire you about life.

Try and think about the wonder of nature and the universe while you talk to God. If you cannot cry for Christ, then you are not ready...and it should come naturally...to cry that HE did not even need to endure that, but HE did (there is a lot to that story than I am willing to share as per reasoning on a public forum)

CRYING should be natural eventually...that is when you KNOW you love God that you love Christ..(my sage instucted me a long time ago that crying is how we show our love)

..Get off the ridiculous meds..have faith, and after about 6 weeks I am certain you will start to feel like a new man.

One other thing. When sitting in the pew ask at least one closed question - make a statement and ask if that is RIGHT? If you are tapped on the right knee or shoulder then consider the question answered as correct.

You need to show Christ some commitment dude...HE ain't gonna respond until you are commited and consider yourself a christian.

btw re "impure thoughts" in the other thread, consider what an actual impure thought might be, rather than just batting one off.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:37 pm I haven't made a single threat of suicide. I have only said that I hope God will just end my life soon in an amicable way. God can either oblige or not. Otherwise, I don't have the nerves to actively harm myself.

Okay, good. I thought you've said (in one way or another) you wanted to give up and end it all -- but I guess I misunderstood what you meant, sorry. I'm glad to hear you wouldn't do that.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:12 pm

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:05 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:18 am I'd like to have a conversation with God. Can someone please point me to where or how I can summon him?

Unlike Lacewing I would suggest you just come from where you are. Sure, if you're feeling gratitude, include that. But if you reactions and feelings include other things, including the so-called negative emotions, well express that.

I agree. I should have explained my 'gratitude' comment... sorry, I was in a hurry. When I ask for things, I feel gratitude for being heard and for the answer I will receive, and as if the solution has already happened. It works really well. Feelings are very powerful in creation (for good and bad).

Of course, if a person just needs to vent and scream and cry... that's what one needs to do. It's natural for being human in this world. But when one feels they've done enough of that and they're ready to be open to change and seeing in a different way, and that becomes their focus, then change can happen.

I think it's good he's getting wide range of wordings, attitudes, approaches. Perhaps something will seem attractive or at least worth trying. This is sort of a side note, but I am often amazed that finding out if something is true/useful/possible/for me (in online forums) tends to mean, being convinced by words on a screen. Getting arguments the prove/demonstrate/convince, etc. Whereas in real life we often have to try things out.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:19 am I think it's good he's getting wide range of wordings, attitudes, approaches. Perhaps something will seem attractive or at least worth trying.

Yes, that would be wonderful! Finding each of our own solutions is preferable to being right over all. Lots of things work.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:19 amThis is sort of a side note, but I am often amazed that finding out if something is true/useful/possible/for me (in online forums) tends to mean, being convinced by words on a screen. Getting arguments the prove/demonstrate/convince, etc. Whereas in real life we often have to try things out.

This online platform really challenges me to continually try to do a better job of communicating whatever message I feel compelled to convey. I think it's a good practice. It helps me order and refine my thoughts -- and my aim is to offer more for consideration, just in case it might be valuable to someone in some way.

I tend to learn more here from the failures of arguments, since there don't seem to be many successful arguments. Failed arguments reveal things about human behavior, limitation, and need. And the whole process demonstrates that there are just so many different perspectives -- and different methods and views work for different people.

In real life, as you noted, we try out things for ourselves and find our proof in the results or payoff we get from that. It's hard to convey that to people in written words. I guess the best we can hope for is that people feel inspired or compelled to experience something new/more for themselves.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:00 am I tend to learn more here from the failures of arguments, since there don't seem to be many successful arguments. Failed arguments reveal things about human behavior, limitation, and need. And the whole process demonstrates that there are just so many different perspectives -- and different methods and views work for different people.

Yes, the oh, my god, you've convinced me, I have changed my mind about something fundamental is rare.

In addition to the failed arguments and what we learn from them, I learn to take on other people's thinking. I may be arguing with them, but I more or less have to do that in order to counter what they are saying effectively (even if it rarely ends up effective in changing their minds).

I think there is a downside. I spend too much time in other people's minds and that happens in real life, there including emotions, their suffering and more. Hm.

In real life, as you noted, we try out things for ourselves and find our proof in the results or payoff we get from that. It's hard to convey that to people in written words. I guess the best we can hope for is that people feel inspired or compelled to experience something new/more for themselves.

Yes, though that seems rare - as reported here. No idea what happens in their personal lives, but again, extremely rare I see someone say to someone else, well, I tried X, did it/went to it for 3 months and I find that....

anything positive, negative.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:55 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:18 am I'd like to have a conversation with God. Can someone please point me to where or how I can summon him?

You cannot point to God, no more than you can point to Consciousness.

If you are not sure as to the exact location of God, you can always make-out that you do know, just like everyone else does.

But the EXACT location of God is ALREADY KNOWN, well at least by some.

Where is he? Ohio?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:18 am I'd like to have a conversation with God. Can someone please point me to where or how I can summon him?

Yes.

But you're going to have to be sincere. He doesn't do "parlor tricks for cynics."

And you KNOW this HOW, EXACTLY?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm He's not "summonable," either.

So, a person asks if someone can please point that person to where or how they can summon God? 'you', "immanuel can", answer, 'Yes', but then go on to say and write, God is NOT 'summonable'.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm It's He who controls the agenda and timing of things...no human agency. You need to be willing to take time, and learn to listen. And you need to persist.

But WHY 'persist', if, according to you, you have NO control over things here?

Also, God CERTAINLY does NOT and will NOT help those who continually 'persist' in Wrong or Incorrect ways, anyway. In fact, doing the same thing over and over, or just 'persisting' with the same things, while expecting to get different results it is said is a sign of insanity.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm But you can, if you want, open a conversation with Him. It's through a thing you'll have heard of before, called "prayer." But I don't mean rote prayers from a misguided ritual childhood, or something like that...I mean an honest conversation, composed of both saying what is true and being willing to listen.

WHEN are 'you' EVER going to start being Honest "yourself" "immanuel can"? 'you' STILL MISHEAR that God is a "He".

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm Set aside five minutes at the start of your day. And for the sake of the exercise, suppose maybe He's there and listening. That's what's called "faith," and without it, you get nothing.

I would NOT be SO ASSUMING here if 'I' was 'you', "immanuel can".

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm You have to be prepared to give God the benefit of the doubt...if only a mustard-seed sized benefit. It will be enough.

Talk about a great example so far of being TOLD things and just ASSUMING or BELIEVING those things to be true, without EVER garnishing ANY ACTUAL PROOF, FIRST.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm Talk. Tell the truth. Spill it all out, and say exactly where you've been, and where you are now. Ask for help. Don't lie about where you're at, or make it "nice" or fudge the details...He knows it all anyway. What matters is your attitude to Him. That's what He cares about.

Do you KNOW WHY 'you' are SO DELUSIONAL here "immanuel can"?

If no, then maybe you could follow parts of your OWN advice here.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm So talk. Then listen.

For example, ask questions like, 'WHY do 'i' ACTUALLY call 'you' a "He", especially when there is absolutely NO evidence NOR proof for this?'

THEN LISTEN for THE ANSWER "immanuel can", and IF you REALLY are Truthful and Honest here, then let 'us' KNOW what THE ANSWER IS.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm And don't do it just once; turn it into a daily thing, and go for a month or two. And see what it does to you, and to your life.

Have you done this "immanuel can"?

If yes, then what ACTUALLY HAPPENED?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm That's my most helpful advice for you.

So, someone asks to be pointed to where or how they can summon God, and your so-called 'most helpful advice' is, 'You can't, as God is NOT summonable, and, God controls the agenda and the timing of things.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm I could say more, but without this basic, honest conversation with God, the rest doesn't matter.

But what you have said so far already does NOT matter either. As what you SAY and CLAIM here PROVES you have NOT had ANY REAL NOR MEANINGFUL contact and connection with God, well NOT YET anyway.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm So you'll have to decide whether you want it badly enough to do it, or not. You just won't get there until you're willing to do what it takes.

In other words "immanuel can" wants you to become just ANOTHER so-called "christian", FIRST.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:08 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:52 pm Okay, but just to be on the safe side...just in case it's not the Christian God...you might want to contact someone who believes in one of these...

You only have to search until you find. After that, it would be silly to search anymore.

LOL and what do you think 'it' is that you have 'found' "immanuel can"?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:08 pm But by all means, search as many alternatives as you would like.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:42 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:28 pm Again, he will tell you that unless you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, you can't be saved.

The Bible will tell you that. I'll simply agree.

That so-called 'grown up' STILL use this so-called "logic" is Truly AMAZING.

REALLY how STUPID would one HAVE TO BE to SAY and CLAIM, 'It MUST BE true BECAUSE 'it' is written in A book'?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:42 pm And just FYI, I've read the Torah, the Koran, the Gita, the Dhammapada, the Tao, and a few other such books in their entirety, as well, and other bits, such as the Gnostic writings and some of the Book of Mormon. I've also read many of the "great" Atheists, and a lot of agnostics, too...including such hardcore types as Hume, Nietzsche and Marx. So it's not like I haven't had a good look around. But you will find that none of them has anything the equal of Jesus Christ. It's that simple, really.

LOL
LOL
LOL

REALLY?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:42 pm But you can search for yourself. You'll find the same.

The SAME 'what'?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:05 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:18 am I'd like to have a conversation with God. Can someone please point me to where or how I can summon him?

Yes.

But you're going to have to be sincere. He doesn't do "parlor tricks for cynics."

He's not "summonable," either. It's He who controls the agenda and timing of things...no human agency. You need to be willing to take time, and learn to listen. And you need to persist.

But you can, if you want, open a conversation with Him. It's through a thing you'll have heard of before, called "prayer." But I don't mean rote prayers from a misguided ritual childhood, or something like that...I mean an honest conversation, composed of both saying what is true and being willing to listen.

Set aside five minutes at the start of your day. And for the sake of the exercise, suppose maybe He's there and listening. That's what's called "faith," and without it, you get nothing. You have to be prepared to give God the benefit of the doubt...if only a mustard-seed sized benefit. It will be enough.

Talk. Tell the truth. Spill it all out, and say exactly where you've been, and where you are now. Ask for help. Don't lie about where you're at, or make it "nice" or fudge the details...He knows it all anyway. What matters is your attitude to Him. That's what He cares about.

So talk. Then listen. And don't do it just once; turn it into a daily thing, and go for a month or two. And see what it does to you, and to your life.

That's my most helpful advice for you. I could say more, but without this basic, honest conversation with God, the rest doesn't matter. So you'll have to decide whether you want it badly enough to do it, or not. You just won't get there until you're willing to do what it takes.

When you say "prayer" as in you can talk to God through prayer. What does that mean? Do you put your hands together and start talking? Do you have to start if off with "father God" or something? Do you have to assume some physical position like kneeling?

Is he necessarily going to rip me a new one if I don't seem reverent or something? I'm angry and I'm bitter. Is he going to respect that? Or am I going to have to find some way to prostrate myself before him?

God WILL ask you, WHY are you 'angry' and 'bitter'? And then just WAIT, PATIENTLY, UNTIL you answer Honestly. Or, until you move on and say or ask some 'thing' ELSE.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:43 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:05 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:41 pm
Yes.

But you're going to have to be sincere. He doesn't do "parlor tricks for cynics."

He's not "summonable," either. It's He who controls the agenda and timing of things...no human agency. You need to be willing to take time, and learn to listen. And you need to persist.

But you can, if you want, open a conversation with Him. It's through a thing you'll have heard of before, called "prayer." But I don't mean rote prayers from a misguided ritual childhood, or something like that...I mean an honest conversation, composed of both saying what is true and being willing to listen.

Set aside five minutes at the start of your day. And for the sake of the exercise, suppose maybe He's there and listening. That's what's called "faith," and without it, you get nothing. You have to be prepared to give God the benefit of the doubt...if only a mustard-seed sized benefit. It will be enough.

Talk. Tell the truth. Spill it all out, and say exactly where you've been, and where you are now. Ask for help. Don't lie about where you're at, or make it "nice" or fudge the details...He knows it all anyway. What matters is your attitude to Him. That's what He cares about.

So talk. Then listen. And don't do it just once; turn it into a daily thing, and go for a month or two. And see what it does to you, and to your life.

That's my most helpful advice for you. I could say more, but without this basic, honest conversation with God, the rest doesn't matter. So you'll have to decide whether you want it badly enough to do it, or not. You just won't get there until you're willing to do what it takes.

When you say "prayer" as in you can talk to God through prayer. What does that mean? Do you put your hands together and start talking? Do you have to start if off with "father God" or something? Do you have to assume some physical position like kneeling?

Is he necessarily going to rip me a new one if I don't seem reverent or something? I'm angry and I'm bitter. Is he going to respect that? Or am I going to have to find some way to prostrate myself before him?

No, I don't think that's at all necessary. What's important is the honesty part.

But to do that, you're probably going to want, for your own sake, to find some private place where people will not overhear you. It's hard to be honest when one feels other people are listening in, even potentially. So get yourself some space in a quiet location.

LOL Do you REALLY think or BELIEVE that God can only HEAR you when you speak OUT ALOUD?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:42 pm There are no incantations, no body positions, no gestures or recipes, no religous behaviours or anything else necessary.

Just as long as you speak OUT ALOUD, correct?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:42 pm Just an honest conversation, and a willingness to receive the answers, whenever and however your conversation Partner decides to communicate.

I will forewarn, as "immanuel can", appears to have NO IDEA AT ALL, God WILL QUESTION 'you' FAR MORE than will provide you with answers. AND, IF you are Truly Honest, in reply, then the answers you seek WILL BE REVEALED.

See, God ASKS CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, 'your' responses PROVIDE THE ANSWERS. And, the MORE Honest and Truthful answers you GIVE, or PROVIDE, then the MORE Truth you WILL SEE, and UNDERSTAND.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:42 pm So you just find a comfortable, quiet place to be, and you can start with, something as simple as, "Lord, if you're willing, I have things I need to say, and I'm ready to hear from You."

LOL IF one had ALREADY been Truly READY to HEAR, from God, then they would have ALREADY HEARD, and LEARNT, that God HAS BEEN TALKING, and SHOWING, 'things' ALL ALONG, ALL of the time.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:42 pm Then let it be whatever it is. It's about honesty, not ceremony.

And, Honestly, STILL giving God a male-gendered label is a FOOL PROOF SIGN that that one does NOT KNOW God, AT ALL.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:49 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:42 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:28 pm Again, he will tell you that unless you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, you can't be saved.

But: if others find what they are searching for in another God, on another One True Path, it would be silly for them to go on searching until they come to the Christian God?

He can't even own up to just how dangerous it is to advise others to stop searching if they do find the wrong God!!

The Bible will tell you that. I'll simply agree.

Note to Astro Cat:

The Bible will tell you too.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:42 pmAnd just FYI, I've read the Torah, the Koran, the Gita, the Dhammapada, the Tao, and a few other such books in their entirety, as well, and other bits, such as the Gnostic writings and some of the Book of Mormon. I've also read many of the "great" Atheists, and a lot of agnostics, too...including such hardcore types as Hume, Nietzsche and Marx. So it's not like I haven't had a good look around. But you will find that none of them has anything the equal of Jesus Christ. It's that simple, really.

But you can search for yourself. You'll find the same.

Okay, but what does that really have to do with this:

But: if others find what they are searching for in another God, on another One True Path, it would be silly for them to go on searching until they come to the Christian God?

He can't even own up to just how dangerous it is to advise others to stop searching if they do find the wrong God!!

The "simple" part here is just how ridiculous you come off. You tell everyone that the Christian God exists because it says so in the Christian Bible. And that the Christian Bible tells us that immortality and salvation is derived solely from accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior.

Although there is ACTUAL IRREFUTABLE Truth in that, the way 'it' has been EXPRESSED and SHARED for millennia now IS absolutely RIDICULOUS.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:42 pm But if others read all the sacred texts above that you did and conclude instead that those Gods are the One True Path, it would be silly for them to search further?

Look, others here take you seriously because you are in fact capable of arguing any number of points with some measure of articulate intelligence. But for me [with you] it revolves around you insisting that your own beliefs are not just a leap of faith but predicated on your insisting that it can be demonstrated that the Christian God does in fact reside in Heaven as it can be demonstrated that the Pope resides in the Vatican.

And since I myself would like to find a way back to a path that includes both immortality and salvation, I can't help but to scoff at the "proof" that you provide.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:55 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:49 pm The "simple" part here is just how ridiculous you come off.

I can explain it to you.

GO AHEAD, EXPLAIN 'it'. But, EXPLAIN what 'it' IS, EXACTLY, FIRST.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:55 pm I can't "understand it for you."

Until 'we' KNOW what 'it' IS, EXACTLY, here FIRST, 'we' could NEVER understand 'it'.

Age wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:53 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:55 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:49 pm The "simple" part here is just how ridiculous you come off.

I can explain it to you.

GO AHEAD, EXPLAIN 'it'. But, EXPLAIN what 'it' IS, EXACTLY, FIRST.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 10:55 pm I can't "understand it for you."

Until 'we' KNOW what 'it' IS, EXACTLY, here FIRST, 'we' could NEVER understand 'it'.

I'll be surprised if IC answers you, Age. If I'm not mistaken I think he has indicated that he has you on ignore. But maybe my quoting your post will allow him to see it. Of course, even then there's no guarantee he'll answer.