Philosophy Now Forum

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:14 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:07 pm

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:47 am Sally opens the box and sadly declares the state of a dead cat.

Roy opens the box without any thoughts entering his consciousness. He simply witnesses free from interpretation.

In Sally's world there is a dead cat and Roy's world is still in superposition.

A: Are there two worlds?

B: Which world is more fundamental?

It doesn't really matter what Roy thinks, when he opens the box the state of the insides of the box immediately start becoming entangled with the surrounding environment. It doesn't matter what kind of brain dead zombie Roy is.

The superposition only remains as long as the insides of the box are entirely unentangled with the outside

That goddamn cat is alive or dead: it ain't both.

There are experiments that are sufficient to prove to me that superposition is a real thing. I'm satisfied with the evidence for superposition. Perhaps you're not, that's your right of course.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:11 pm

Since I am quite happily ALIVE why would I do such a terminally retarded thing?

You don't do anything, you are being done.

You cannot tell yourself you are dead, so what makes you think you know you are alive?


Except as concept known...and the point is - that which is known can know nothing.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:35 pm

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:17 pm And yes, it does remove all emotion. T

And there it is in the open. A dualism that includes a distaste for emotion. How to cut yourself off from the limbic system

The emotions of "your name here" and their associated thoughts ("I...") are exactly what projects the appearance of a separately existing identity

If you think Self is some sort of convoluted combination of thoughts and sensations, you are in duality

Pure Awareness, transcendent of thought does not give rise to separately existing phenomena, as the thought experiment in the OP points out

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:50 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:47 pm Only in your world, but not in my world.

Prove me wrong.

I cannot prove you are correct.

as Roy says

And yes, it does remove all emotion.

I am quoting him. If you disagree and are interested, you could take it up with the source.

Yeah, that's what transcendence is. One has taken the next step on the evolutionary ladder of increasing Self-Awareness

You are at the mercy of thoughts and emotions, being tossed this way and that.

Bow if you're digging all that emotion stuff, please continue. If you're ready to move on, then delve deeply into the space between thoughts

You cannot tell yourself you are dead, so what makes you think you know you are alive?

She's barely able to chew gum and walk at this point. Somebody prep an iron lung: she's about to forget how to breathe.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:07 pm

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:47 am Sally opens the box and sadly declares the state of a dead cat.

Roy opens the box without any thoughts entering his consciousness. He simply witnesses free from interpretation.

In Sally's world there is a dead cat and Roy's world is still in superposition.

A: Are there two worlds?

B: Which world is more fundamental?

It doesn't really matter what Roy thinks, when he opens the box the state of the insides of the box immediately start becoming entangled with the surrounding environment. It doesn't matter what kind of brain dead zombie Roy is.

The superposition only remains as long as the insides of the box are entirely unentangled with the outside

Again, someone who can't even conceive that there is a level of Self-Awareness higher/more fundamental than that of the thinking mind. You know not of the experience I speak so you assume it's a lower state

Your post is like a dog trying to convince a human that the humans level of Self-Awareness is lower than that of a canine

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:17 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:14 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:07 pm

It doesn't really matter what Roy thinks, when he opens the box the state of the insides of the box immediately start becoming entangled with the surrounding environment. It doesn't matter what kind of brain dead zombie Roy is.

The superposition only remains as long as the insides of the box are entirely unentangled with the outside

That goddamn cat is alive or dead: it ain't both.

There are experiments that are sufficient to prove to me that superposition is a real thing. I'm satisfied with the evidence for superposition. Perhaps you're not, that's your right of course.

Not up here on our level, there's not.

All manner of quantum spookiness may be, down there.

Up here: the cat is dead or alive, not both.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:29 pm

You cannot tell yourself you are dead, so what makes you think you know you are alive?

She's barely able to chew gum and walk at this point. Somebody prep an iron lung: she's about to forget how to breathe.

Sorry, but breathing never forgets to breathe. When has the body ever stopped breathing and been able to tell itself breathing has stopped?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:33 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:17 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:14 pm

That goddamn cat is alive or dead: it ain't both.

There are experiments that are sufficient to prove to me that superposition is a real thing. I'm satisfied with the evidence for superposition. Perhaps you're not, that's your right of course.

Not up here on our level, there's not.

All manner of quantum spookiness may be, down there.

Up here: the cat is dead or alive, not both.

But up here is made of down there. They've demonstrated quantum superposition of increasingly larger things, beyond just photons and electrons. Pretty sure they've demonstrated it with entire molecules at this point.

I don't think there's any point between down there and up here where superposition just stops

Your post is like a dog trying to convince a human that the humans level of Self-Awareness is lower than that of a canine

Translation: you are like a dog to me.

See, I think Roy & DAM (sittin' in a tree...) are flat out retarded. But I recognize 'em both as persons.

Roy, the transcended, sees us as dogs.

Never, ever, put this motherfucker in charge of a goddamn thing.

He'll have us all collar'd (and neutered) and in kennels if you do.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:42 pm

Your post is like a dog trying to convince a human that the humans level of Self-Awareness is lower than that of a canine

Translation: you are like a dog to me.

Roy, the transcended, sees us as dogs.

That's a step up from swine, in my book, so lets not look a gift horse in the mouth.

I don't think there's any point between down there and up here where superposition just stops

Do it with a cat instead of a cloud of electrons, protons, and neutrons (a molecule) and I'll drink Roy's hair tonic.

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:48 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:42 pm

Your post is like a dog trying to convince a human that the humans level of Self-Awareness is lower than that of a canine

Translation: you are like a dog to me.

Roy, the transcended, sees us as dogs.

That's a step up from swine, in my book, so lets not look a gift horse in the mouth.

Yeah, I guess he won't eat us now...just put us to sleep.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:56 pm

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:50 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:47 pm Only in your world, but not in my world.

Prove me wrong.

I cannot prove you are correct.

as Roy says

And yes, it does remove all emotion.

I am quoting him. If you disagree and are interested, you could take it up with the source.

You are the source..you do not have to petition for a request.

It removes all thought from awareness. Not cut them off completely...it removes the attachment to them.

Ah, couldn't admit you were wrong about that one, so you share some random spiritual truth instead.

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:21 pm

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:35 pm

roydop wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 3:17 pm And yes, it does remove all emotion. T

And there it is in the open. A dualism that includes a distaste for emotion. How to cut yourself off from the limbic system

The emotions of "your name here" and their associated thoughts ("I...") are exactly what projects the appearance of a separately existing identity

If you think Self is some sort of convoluted combination of thoughts and sensations, you are in duality

Pure Awareness, transcendent of thought does not give rise to separately existing phenomena, as the thought experiment in the OP points out

Yes, I understand all that. I was just glad that the underlying removal of emotions was openly admitted. That is the dualism. Some of the internal must go, while the external is accepted. Of course non-dualism does not experience the dualism of internal and external, but part of the goal/process/decision is to remove emotions'. I know that if I ask you what is wrong with emotions, no open judgment of emotions will be made. It's underneath in the process/goal. So, I think it is good you said it outright. Truth in advertising.

Both you and DAM seem to assume that, for example, what you wrote above is some new idea or experience for anyone who disagrees with you. That assumption is not correct.