Philosophy Now Forum

bahman wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:18 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 6:13 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:32 am Is an Ebola virus cell a good thing? Is the venom gland in a rattlesnake a good thing? Is a cancer cell a good thing?

What Genesis says is that when the Creation was made, such things did not exist. They are products of a fallen environment, which is a consequence of man's alienation from God.

Ebola's a particularly good example, for that matter: it's likely a man-caused virus. But in the other cases, there were apparently originally neither harmful creatures, such as rattlesnakes with venomous fangs, nor genetic malfunctions, of which cancer is an example.

Didn't God know that the Fall of Adam and Eve would happen? If yes why did he create the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Because he knew it would happen knowing of our imperfections to begin with, Free Will being one such deficiency. In effect, we were designed to fall and blamed for it instead of blaming himself for having been the originator of it. It's the first recorded version of passing the buck.

bahman wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:18 pm Didn't God know that the Fall of Adam and Eve would happen? If yes why did he create the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Knowledge of good and evil is the sine qua non of personal choice.

If I give you "choice" in something, it can only mean that you have the option to do what I want...or to do something else. If you can only do what I want, I've given you no choice. You must have the genuine option to choose something else.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 12:45 am

bahman wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:18 pm Didn't God know that the Fall of Adam and Eve would happen? If yes why did he create the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Knowledge of good and evil is the sine qua non of personal choice.

If I give you "choice" in something, it can only mean that you have the option to do what I want...or to do something else. If you can only do what I want, I've given you no choice. You must have the genuine option to choose something else.

I'm sorry, but this is just absolute utter BS....you are talking about knowledge insofar as the personal ''KNOWER'' aka the I


Now while there is ''knowing'' as and through the sensation known....There is no ''other'' I that knows..knowing is simply one with itself...the ONLY knowing there is.

The knowing I in you (there) ... is the same knowing I in me (here)

No ' other I ' gives you a choice...for example: when you are experiencing a raging tooth ache ...there is no option in the immediate experience for you to decide whether the experience is good or bad experience...the experience is self-evidently known to you in the instance of knowing. . this example is just one of many of life's experiences.

You do not choose to have a good experience, nor do you choose to have a bad experience. Experiences are beyond the I's control...there is no option available to either experience or not experience whatever is arising in the instantaneous moment...no more than there is an option available to you as to whether you are aware or not..you are AWARE and you simply have no choice ABOUT THAT.

You have no choice in the moment of excrutiating pain OR PLEASURE as to whether that experience is good or bad...it's simply KNOWN in the instant of knowing.

God doesn't give you the choice of FREE WILL...No more than ''dontaskme'' gives you free will...No other one can give you what you already ARE...which is nothing and everything...Which never had the choice to exist in the first place ...choice is a concept within the dream of separation...it's an illusion...The personal I who appears to choose is an illusion.

And my job is to keep calling you out for your misinformation.

.

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:41 pm
Because he knew it would happen knowing of our imperfections to begin with, Free Will being one such deficiency. In effect, we were designed to fall and blamed for it instead of blaming himself for having been the originator of it. It's the first recorded version of passing the buck.

Language was the first recorded version of truth. Although in reality, truth is a property of words and sentences, not of reality.

No 'thing' can be known until knowing is first written as and through the use of words.... . as I am writing, I am knowing knowledge in the same instance ..there is no separation there between the author and the story..The book is inseparable from it's content...A story known is always of HIStory..There is no knowledge (of) the present or future...KNOWLEDGE is always here right NOW within the original author...although it seems there are many authors, there is only ONE reader...meaning ONE is both the reader and the author in the exact same instance of knowing.

In the illusory duality that is the Mind...Words got mistaken for reality. When in reality, contradiction doesn't cause reality to suddenly disappear in a puff of logic … contradiction is just a word, it's a concept. Reality is always right here now. NOWHERE..it does not NEED a concept to BE

Be not the slave of Words.



Sorry if this makes no sense...it's just meant to be a pointing to a real truth...not a fake truth that is religion.

We use words, or names, to refer to things that are part of reality, but the things in themselves don't have names.

Subject and Object are One. You are both the external and internal reality at the same time. . because only you created the difference as and through the word.

When you finally reach the truth of your existence..as a seeking philosopher...you will never pick up another book ever again.

The Bible is finally laid to rest, it is made redundant, and no further self-inquiry is necessary. R.I.P

God is silent.

when two become ONE

God is you. You never left you. You are always and never not you...in this conception.

"Was she a dancer, back in the '50s?"

60s, but you'd hardly hear about her because her career quickly tanked after she started having weight problems in 62. In fact, it got so bad that co-workers at the Cavana Cat Club started calling her Shirley Noah because she had gotten as big as an ark.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 12:45 am

bahman wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:18 pm Didn't God know that the Fall of Adam and Eve would happen? If yes why did he create the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Knowledge of good and evil is the sine qua non of personal choice.

If I give you "choice" in something, it can only mean that you have the option to do what I want...or to do something else. If you can only do what I want, I've given you no choice. You must have the genuine option to choose something else.

I am talking about the real tree.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 6:06 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 12:45 am

bahman wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:18 pm Didn't God know that the Fall of Adam and Eve would happen? If yes why did he create the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Knowledge of good and evil is the sine qua non of personal choice.

If I give you "choice" in something, it can only mean that you have the option to do what I want...or to do something else. If you can only do what I want, I've given you no choice. You must have the genuine option to choose something else.

I'm sorry...

Sorry, DAM. I'm not interested in your incoherent "there is no I" nonsense. Take it somewhere else, if you want engagement. This is the last I'll say about it here.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 2:23 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 12:45 am

bahman wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:18 pm Didn't God know that the Fall of Adam and Eve would happen? If yes why did he create the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Knowledge of good and evil is the sine qua non of personal choice.

If I give you "choice" in something, it can only mean that you have the option to do what I want...or to do something else. If you can only do what I want, I've given you no choice. You must have the genuine option to choose something else.

I am talking about the real tree.

You'll have to explain your question on that. I don't understand how that changes the answer.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 3:56 pm Sorry, DAM. I'm not interested in your incoherent "there is no I" nonsense. Take it somewhere else, if you want engagement. This is the last I'll say about it here.

Who told you there is no I ?

The I is a concept known...not by I ...but by the only knowing there is, you are that knowing.

Knowing is your only experience.

What's incoherent about that?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 12:45 am
Knowledge of good and evil is the sine qua non of personal choice.

sine qua non

All conditions are unconditional not personal IC


Unconditional choices are not personal choices, they are choiceless choices. Knowing the difference between good and evil is self-evident in the immediate knowing that you already ARE.. only you bleed, no other bleeds for you. You do not need a Jesus figure/entity to demonstrate for you what you already know.

Would you have your own son tortured to death just to save a stranger?


.

"Would you have your own son tortured to death just to save a stranger?"

Absolutely not. That stranger is also someone's son, and I'd not want the father to have to live with the knowledge that my son was tortured to death to save his. Therefore, the fair and logical solution would be to have them both tortured to death.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 3:57 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 2:23 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 12:45 am
Knowledge of good and evil is the sine qua non of personal choice.

If I give you "choice" in something, it can only mean that you have the option to do what I want...or to do something else. If you can only do what I want, I've given you no choice. You must have the genuine option to choose something else.

I am talking about the real tree.

You'll have to explain your question on that. I don't understand how that changes the answer.

We know that Adam and Eve ate from the fruit of the forbidden tree. Is that correct or not?

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 10:02 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 3:57 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 2:23 pm
I am talking about the real tree.

You'll have to explain your question on that. I don't understand how that changes the answer.

We know that Adam and Eve ate from the fruit of the forbidden tree. Is that correct or not?

Okay.

What's the question, though? I'm not seeing how "the real tree" presents a special problem...

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 3:56 pm

Sorry, DAM. I'm not interested in your incoherent "there is no I" nonsense. Take it somewhere else, if you want engagement. This is the last I'll say about it here.

And we are supposed to be interested in worshipping some 2000+ year old dead human god figure.

Why don't you take that idol dead person somewhere else, then perhaps we can engage...but I do understand why you shoo away someone who does not speak your own narrative IC. We all have a story to tell.