Philosophy Now Forum

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 5:16 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:03 am ... unconditional love.

Is the kind of hideous perversion of love that enables one to love their daughter and the rapist that is raping her at the same time. It is supposedly a love one has for that which has nothing about it to love.

Real love has to be deserved.

For her sake, may your wife forever be worthy of your standards.

*

Getting to the meat of your interest, which you finally got around to projecting with one of the most extreme examples you could conjure, for the sake of denigrating what you don’t comprehend …

Let’s say that you encounter a stranger who is introduced to you for the first time, and because you love unconditionally, and because of the benign social circumstances of your meeting, you treat him with the default respect and love that all humans unconditionally deserve, independent of their dualistic ways still unknown to you, ways that will cause feelings in you, feelings that may prejudice you against what they say or do.

Their dualistic ways are actions caused by what they must do, or choose to do, or by their chemical makeup, or because of how they were raised. Whatever. Doesn’t matter. You don’t know their background or what the causes are, probably can’t know, so because of the conditions of sociability in which you are moving and functioning, you treat him with unconditional love, manifested as courtesy and politeness, with attention to not tread on his human rights.

Then, for whatever reason he has, he decides it’s time to rape your daughter … which is the example of your interest.

You still unconditionally love this human being and for that reason, you are compelled, without choice, to set him on the right path of life. Not only will this be to his benefit, it will be to the benefit of all mankind. Thus, you learn that hate is a quality of love, unlike the opposite of love, which is indifference.

Your choiceless actions of love, raining down upon the comprehension of the one who needs to be appropriately schooled in the ways of civilized behavior towards all human relations, but particularly towards your daughter because of your special love for her, is an appropriate expression of love known as … justice.

This is because you love your daughter not only unconditionally, but also especially because she is your daughter … but hopefully not romantically because that’s inappropriate, you Hog rider you.

You guys need to stick to subject-matter that can comfortably accommodate your intellectual bullshit.

Leave the musings of love and the like to the poets who can rightly proffer such feelings with dignity and style.

Because of unconditional love

You feel compelled to set the world

Onto the right Love path

Because that benefits the world

And your method is to use what others have found.

In that case,

To begin knowing of unconditional love

Begin by reading what you can find about ... Brahmacharya.

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:02 pm Let’s say that you encounter a stranger who is introduced to you for the first time, and because you love unconditionally, and because of the benign social circumstances of your meeting, you treat him with the default respect and love that all humans unconditionally deserve, independent of their dualistic ways still unknown to you, ways that will cause feelings in you, feelings that may prejudice you against what they say or do.

I treat all others with respect and since I never judge others on any basis other than what they actually do and demonstrate themselves to be, I make no assumptions about any acquaintance except, until demonstrated otherwise, they are decent human beings worthy of my regard for their person and dignity.

To, "love," someone or extend any other uninvited attention toward someone you don't know, however, is presumptuous. They may not want your unasked for love and may very well rightly resent it as intrusive, which it would be.

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:02 pm This is because you love your daughter not only unconditionally, but also especially because she is your daughter …,

I have five children. I do not love them all the same, and one I do not love at all, because he has made himself a useless and dangerous individual who spoils almost everything he touches. We did everything we possibly could to help him, and his evil wife, and when we ran out of resources to waste on them, we never heard from them again. "Unconditional," love is exactly what they wanted, like all other parasites, and did not like discovering that to be truly loved in this world you must have something about you worth loving.

The others I love, but not the same, because they are all different, and none want any love they know they are not worthy of, which makes them confident in the love they receive, because they know it is genuine and warranted.

George Bernard Shaw wrote, "If you begin by sacrificing yourself to those you love, you end by hating those to whom you have sacrificed yourself." Only, "unconditional love," is, "sacrificial love." All other love requires no sacrifice, no matter how much it cost, because it is in one's own interest to love those who are worthy of it and the joy of that kind of loving is its own reward and worth any price.

Most people are worthy of love, and I love almost everyone, because I find value in almost everyone, but if I loved everyone indiscriminately and unconditionally it would turn love into a meaningless sentiment and insult to those loved. Love that actually means something cannot be unconditional.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:32 am Is there such a thing as romantic love? I see people on dating apps looking for partners and beautiful folk meeting and socializing at bars with each other. It all seems so alien and distant from where I'm at.

What do you mean by romantic love? Romantic means conducive to or characterized by the expression of love.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:50 pm...

Good writing, your honest thoughts, from the heart. Thanks for sharing.

simplicity wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:24 pm... with dignity and style.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:50 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:02 pm Let’s say that you encounter a stranger who is introduced to you for the first time, and because you love unconditionally, and because of the benign social circumstances of your meeting, you treat him with the default respect and love that all humans unconditionally deserve, independent of their dualistic ways still unknown to you, ways that will cause feelings in you, feelings that may prejudice you against what they say or do.

I treat all others with respect and since I never judge others on any basis other than what they actually do and demonstrate themselves to be, I make no assumptions about any acquaintance except, until demonstrated otherwise, they are decent human beings worthy of my regard for their person and dignity.

To, "love," someone or extend any other uninvited attention toward someone you don't know, however, is presumptuous. They may not want your unasked for love and may very well rightly resent it as intrusive, which it would be.

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:02 pm This is because you love your daughter not only unconditionally, but also especially because she is your daughter …,

I have five children. I do not love them all the same, and one I do not love at all, because he has made himself a useless and dangerous individual who spoils almost everything he touches. We did everything we possibly could to help him, and his evil wife, and when we ran out of resources to waste on them, we never heard from them again. "Unconditional," love is exactly what they wanted, like all other parasites, and did not like discovering that to be truly loved in this world you must have something about you worth loving.

The others I love, but not the same, because they are all different, and none want any love they know they are not worthy of, which makes them confident in the love they receive, because they know it is genuine and warranted.

George Bernard Shaw wrote, "If you begin by sacrificing yourself to those you love, you end by hating those to whom you have sacrificed yourself." Only, "unconditional love," is, "sacrificial love." All other love requires no sacrifice, no matter how much it cost, because it is in one's own interest to love those who are worthy of it and the joy of that kind of loving is its own reward and worth any price.

Most people are worthy of love, and I love almost everyone, because I find value in almost everyone, but if I loved everyone indiscriminately and unconditionally it would turn love into a meaningless sentiment and insult to those loved. Love that actually means something cannot be unconditional.

It's really not natural for a parent to not love their children. Why would you not love your child just because he hasn't grown up as you would like him to? And whose fault is that? The way you talk, it's understandable that he would be like he is. You must have loved him or you wouldn't have tried to help him out. Love doesn't just disappear. It's certainly possible to not 'like' your children, but I don't think it's possible to not love them if you loved them before they became big and difficult.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:54 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:32 am Is there such a thing as romantic love? I see people on dating apps looking for partners and beautiful folk meeting and socializing at bars with each other. It all seems so alien and distant from where I'm at.

What do you mean by romantic love? Romantic means conducive to or characterized by the expression of love.

I mean the kind of love between two non-related adults (I guess I can't say between two people of the opposite sex since some people seem to defy that definition). I may romantically love a woman I meet on a dating app or something but I would not romantically love my mother. I hope that helps you understand the difference.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:20 am

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:50 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:02 pm Let’s say that you encounter a stranger who is introduced to you for the first time, and because you love unconditionally, and because of the benign social circumstances of your meeting, you treat him with the default respect and love that all humans unconditionally deserve, independent of their dualistic ways still unknown to you, ways that will cause feelings in you, feelings that may prejudice you against what they say or do.

I treat all others with respect and since I never judge others on any basis other than what they actually do and demonstrate themselves to be, I make no assumptions about any acquaintance except, until demonstrated otherwise, they are decent human beings worthy of my regard for their person and dignity.

To, "love," someone or extend any other uninvited attention toward someone you don't know, however, is presumptuous. They may not want your unasked for love and may very well rightly resent it as intrusive, which it would be.

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:02 pm This is because you love your daughter not only unconditionally, but also especially because she is your daughter …,

I have five children. I do not love them all the same, and one I do not love at all, because he has made himself a useless and dangerous individual who spoils almost everything he touches. We did everything we possibly could to help him, and his evil wife, and when we ran out of resources to waste on them, we never heard from them again. "Unconditional," love is exactly what they wanted, like all other parasites, and did not like discovering that to be truly loved in this world you must have something about you worth loving.

The others I love, but not the same, because they are all different, and none want any love they know they are not worthy of, which makes them confident in the love they receive, because they know it is genuine and warranted.

George Bernard Shaw wrote, "If you begin by sacrificing yourself to those you love, you end by hating those to whom you have sacrificed yourself." Only, "unconditional love," is, "sacrificial love." All other love requires no sacrifice, no matter how much it cost, because it is in one's own interest to love those who are worthy of it and the joy of that kind of loving is its own reward and worth any price.

Most people are worthy of love, and I love almost everyone, because I find value in almost everyone, but if I loved everyone indiscriminately and unconditionally it would turn love into a meaningless sentiment and insult to those loved. Love that actually means something cannot be unconditional.

It's really not natural for a parent to not love their children. Why would you not love your child just because he hasn't grown up as you would like him to? And whose fault is that? The way you talk, it's understandable that he would be like he is. You must have loved him or you wouldn't have tried to help him out. Love doesn't just disappear. It's certainly possible to not 'like' your children, but I don't think it's possible to not love them if you loved them before they became big and difficult.

By love I mean the evaluation of someone else as a value to me, someone who is worthy of my respect, admiration, and desire to enjoy and be with. If you are talking about some sentimental feeling and calling that love, I suppose you could say I still love the son who has intentionally done so much physical and emotional harm to those who loved him, including his siblings, most of his friends and his own children, in the sense that it grieves and saddens me that he wasted so many opportunities extended to him and ruined his own and others lives.

There is something insidiously wrong with those who love something, no matter how evil, just because of some genetic relationship.

Please do not get the impression my love for my children is determined by any judgement on my part about how they choose to live their lives. I judge no one else's life, even those who live in ways I would abhor. So long as any individual does not intentionally do harm to anyone else, I'm delighted that they can enjoy their life, if they can, and applaud whatever success and happiness they achieve.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:04 am There is only unconditional love.

Romantic Love isn’t the cure, it’s a path that can go somewhere, or wander. Where it inevitably goes to, sooner or later, is unconditional love. Sooner is better, for when realized later on the death bed, one could die laughing over the irony of the simplicity.

Odds are good that a good number of these people seeking a ration of true unconditional love, know Romantic Love, or have known Romantic Love. Odds are good that they are independent thinkers, and as free as anyone else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySTXxeKz7cU

The need for people who know Romantic love, to receive unconditional love, can be either dismissed as just a human tendency, or dismissed as just a weakness, or unconditional love can be understood. What’s required for the transmission and reception of becoming one? Total, complete trust, and whatever causes that, which is a condition of purity that usually requires subtraction to uncover, rather than a layering on of more concepts.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:50 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:32 am Is there such a thing as romantic love? I see people on dating apps looking for partners and beautiful folk meeting and socializing at bars with each other. It all seems so alien and distant from where I'm at.

I always find the question revealing.

My wife and I were bikers for years. We both rode big Harleys and were frequetly asked why we enjoyed it so much.

"HOG," riders have a saying about the freedom and exhiliration of bike riding others' question. "If you have to ask, you cannot understand."

My wife and I have enjoyed romantic love for many years. For those who know it, there really is not much else in this world that makes life worth living. It is certainly not for everyone and most will probably never find it, but then most people don't find much of value in their lives. But if you have to ask, you cannot understand.

So my answer to your question is, of course there is romantic love, but it's something you do and earn and must be worthy of. It's not something that, "happens," to you, and it is extremely costly and very few are able or willing to pay the price of the most valuable jewel available in this world--the bliss of romantic love.

When someone loves another it is a recognition and appreciation of that other as the most important and valuable person in their life without whom life would not be worth living. There is hardly a more vile or disgusting idea than, "unconditional love," which is like saying, "there is nothing about you worth loving and that's why I love you." It would be better to be hated than loved unconditionally which makes one no more valueable than a piece of trash or refuse.

for once i agree with you, especially on unconditional love. that is a hox from the get go, even the God mentioned in the bible requires an agreement between Him and those He has an relationship with (of course most of so called christianity don't get that). a relationship of any kind between humans is a trusted agreement which is honored every day in a shared experience such a life or riding your HD building a life a home a business so on and so forth. could be friends spouses anyone you have a transaction with. but romance, women require to be treated a certain way to know what you think of them which effects in most cases how they feel about you and themselves. that they are valued.

flowers give by a suiter or a spouse or a son to his mother can show how that works.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:11 pm
There is something insidiously wrong with those who love something, no matter how evil, just because of some genetic relationship.

It's not 'right' or 'wrong'. It just 'is', and it's called being a parent. When parents don't love their children then those are children who don't tend to live for very long, the ones who are the subject of horror stories on the news that can haunt you for years...

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:11 pmI have five children. I do not love them all the same, and one I do not love at all, because he has made himself a useless and dangerous individual who spoils almost everything he touches. We did everything we possibly could to help him, and his evil wife, and when we ran out of resources to waste on them, we never heard from them again. "Unconditional," love is exactly what they wanted, like all other parasites, and did not like discovering that to be truly loved in this world you must have something about you worth loving.

I also have [had] five children, but my only son died.

Unconditional Love does not mean you allow people to take advantage of you. It is about clearly seeing the needs of others and doing what's necessary to help [if anything]. It has nothing to do with your feelings.

And I am certain that [despite your lofty opinion of yourself] there has been many occasions in your life when you have assumed the role of parasite, as well. After all, are we [in the end] not all beggars and thieves from Mother Earth?

DPMartin wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:19 pm for once i agree with you, especially on unconditional love. that is a hox from the get go ...

If you look more closely, you’ll see that you’re the unwitting victim of doublethink.
You in fact, are the victim of a hoax and deep down, you know it.
This is why you project upon unconditional love, what has been hoaxed on you.

Here’s the facts.

Romantic love is the scam.
Romantic Love is intertwined with commercialism.
Romantic Love is the prize, for the conditioned.

The Cinderella wedding is but the beginning.
Spending is the proof of love.

If you’re a man, don’t you dare forget Valentine’s Day.
Spending is proof of love.

Diamonds are so expensive because of Romantic Love.
Spending big is proof of Big Love.

For metaphorphiles, spending is sacrifice.

Sacrificing the down payment on a home, because of the big wedding, to prove love.
So conditioned to think Romantic Love is the big deal, because that's where the profit is, for those who have conditioned you.

Romantic Love is commercialized.
Unconditional love, is love that has not been commercialized.
Unconditioned love has not been conditioned, by the insane logic of commercialization.

That's a fact, Jack.