Philosophy Now Forum

I'm kinda busy so no time to read your essay and not sure why you feel necessary to write such a long piece while still linking to a news article (that I would have to subscribe to or at least kiss some of its arse in some way to actually read). I don't tend to click on links posted by people on PHN, if it can't be said by the poster then tough.

I don't like when someone responds to a particular point I make where a pertinent point to both sides of the coin is omitted.

I wrote:-
"I am certain murders, rapes, child molestation is increasing as a result in the growth of non-belief. I am not saying theists don't commit these acts, but when they do they are the greater fool. When I see a child murdered by someone on the news, as occurred recently to a 9 year old girl murdered by her step-father, I very much doubt that """man""" has any belief in the existence of God."

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:58 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:54 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:32 pm

You love using "existential crisis" in relation to theists. Consider this, you are suffering from an existential crisis in your lack of intelligence to attack theism (borderline militantly) in a rational manner.

Fact is, ALL humans are evolved with an inherent unavoidable existential crisis which generate terrible cognitive dissonances.

I believe the most optimal solutions to ease the cognitive dissonances from the inherent existential crisis is resorting to theism or non-theistic religions at the present phase of evolution.

What non-theistic religions?

Buddhism is non-theistic, Nontheist Quakers, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religion

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:54 amBut the cons of theism are outweighing its pros and we move towards the future, as such humanity need to wean off theism to be replace by more effective & foolproof non-theistic methods.

I am certain murders, rapes, child molestation is increasing as a result in the growth of non-belief. I am not saying theists don't commit these acts, but when they do they are the greater fool. When I see a child murdered by someone on the news, as occurred recently to a 9 year old girl murdered by her step-father, I very much doubt that """man""" has any belief in the existence of God.

Note the recent killings, murders, rapes, honor killings, killing of apostates, homosexuals etc. by Muslims Jihadists of ISIS and others which are sanctioned by their God in their holy texts.

There are news of murders, rapes, child molestation but do you have the real evidences?
Have you read Steven Pinker's;

The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined is a 2011 book by Steven Pinker, in which the author argues that violence in the world has declined both in the long run and in the short run and suggests explanations as to why this has occurred.[1] The book uses data simply documenting declining violence across time and geography.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bette ... Our_Nature

Note the legal abolishment of chattel slavery by the secular community without any help from a God.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:

attofishpi wrote:
It doesn't, and Y should it? Karma travels in down the line, those reincarnated into poverty were so due to their previous lives, they may have been fortunate depending on the level of their iniquity to reincarnate again as humans.

Comprehending Panentheism entails thinking karmically in 4 dimensions..

Whatever you claimed, just provide the evidences, justifications and "proofs" convincingly on a rational basis.

What do you want?

Evidence? that there is a 3rd party intelligence behind the construct of what we perceive as reality, commonly known as God\'God'? That reincarnation occurs? Both?

justifications? -- Well, it stands to reason that IF there is a God, that our actions will affect our destiny (karma).

proofs? -- see evidence question.

I want direct empirical evidences instead of speculated inferences.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:

attofishpi wrote:Personally, I have not met one of those types of theists of ANY religion - clearly you must be surrounded by them. But sure, we all love to eat what they reincarnate as 666. (unless of course you don't enjoy eating the beasts)

Personally?? Surely you cannot be so ignorant of this evil?

YES, personally I have never met the type of theist that, as you stated:- "kill their parents, siblings, kins and non-believers when their consonance from a belief in a God is threatened with the slightest threats, e.g. drawing of cartoons, even disbelieving is a threat

Veritas Aequitas wrote:Try drawing cartoons of Muhammad in front of a popular mosque in Luton Town or Birmingham UK on a Friday after their prayers, it is likely you won't be alive to experience the consequences.

So why would I do that? I don't think they would find it funny.

To bang on "personal experiences' is not an intelligent nor wise thing to do especially when you are killed in the personal event.
Surely you have sufficient intelligence to infer based on real empirical evidences that are going on around the world at present and possible in the future?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:58 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:54 am
Fact is, ALL humans are evolved with an inherent unavoidable existential crisis which generate terrible cognitive dissonances.

I believe the most optimal solutions to ease the cognitive dissonances from the inherent existential crisis is resorting to theism or non-theistic religions at the present phase of evolution.

What non-theistic religions?

Buddhism is non-theistic, Nontheist Quakers, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religion

Ok. But you stated:- I believe the most optimal solutions to ease the cognitive dissonances from the inherent existential crisis is resorting to theism or the above (non-theism)
I'm truly not sure what you are alluding to. Why are you such a confused chap?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 am

attofishpi wrote:

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:54 amBut the cons of theism are outweighing its pros and we move towards the future, as such humanity need to wean off theism to be replace by more effective & foolproof non-theistic methods.

I am certain murders, rapes, child molestation is increasing as a result in the growth of non-belief. I am not saying theists don't commit these acts, but when they do they are the greater fool. When I see a child murdered by someone on the news, as occurred recently to a 9 year old girl murdered by her step-father, I very much doubt that """man""" has any belief in the existence of God.

Note the recent killings, murders, rapes, honor killings, killing of apostates, homosexuals etc. by Muslims Jihadists of ISIS and others which are sanctioned by their God in their holy texts.

Can we attempt to avoid believers in the Quran, may I suggest we stick to Christianity, if at least for simplicities sake. And when I state Christianity, I am talking about individuals who believe in the word of Christ as the extent of what it is to be Christian, and act according to His word(s).

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 amThere are news of murders, rapes, child molestation but do you have the real evidences?

Well that is a strange statement - on the one hand you state the news of such terrible acts, but are you suggesting murders, rapes, child molestation do not occur, that the news journalists, court reporters, police are all making stuff up?

attofishpi wrote:

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 amThe Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined is a 2011 book by Steven Pinker, in which the author argues that violence in the world has declined both in the long run and in the short run and suggests explanations as to why this has occurred.[1] The book uses data simply documenting declining violence across time and geography.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bette ... Our_Nature

Note the legal abolishment of chattel slavery by the secular community without any help from a God.

How would you know? In the least, a great deal of help came from believers in God, including this chap:- William Wilberforce (24 August 1759 – 29 July 1833) was a British politician, philanthropist, and a leader of the movement to abolish the slave trade. A native of Kingston upon Hull, Yorkshire, he began his political career in 1780, eventually becoming an independent Member of Parliament (MP) for Yorkshire (1784–1812). In 1785, he became an evangelical Christian, which resulted in major changes to his lifestyle and a lifelong concern for reform.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce

Some months ago I was walking my dog and listening to talk back radio about someone...from memory was a theist Quaker or ordained priest and was instrumental in abolishing slavery in the US early days.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:

attofishpi wrote:

Veritas Aequitas wrote:Whatever you claimed, just provide the evidences, justifications and "proofs" convincingly on a rational basis.

What do you want?

Evidence? that there is a 3rd party intelligence behind the construct of what we perceive as reality, commonly known as God\'God'? That reincarnation occurs? Both?

justifications? -- Well, it stands to reason that IF there is a God, that our actions will affect our destiny (karma).

proofs? -- see evidence question.

I want direct empirical evidences instead of speculated inferences.

The Simulation or Divine Reality? - evidence of God\'God' thread
(viewtopic.php?f=11&t=33214) has empirical evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that there is at the least an intelligence projecting what we perceive as reality to us via qualia input to our consciousness.

Your mocking comparison, using the below image that you suggest looks like a "dick" n "balls" of Scandinavia, falls FAR SHORT of the requirement to be included in any way to indicate the above.
IF on this map, there was a region called "testicle" "scrotum" "penis" within the areas that you think look like such, well...then I might add it to the many many that are far more elevated by reason where both shape AND region names map correctly. And let's not forget the words in English LAN_gauge: key to such thing as The Tree of Knowledge - extremely unlikely to have originated via NATURAL coin_cidence.

DUH!

Veritas Aequitas wrote:

attofishpi wrote:

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Personally?? Surely you cannot be so ignorant of this evil?

YES, personally I have never met the type of theist that, as you stated:- "kill their parents, siblings, kins and non-believers when their consonance from a belief in a God is threatened with the slightest threats, e.g. drawing of cartoons, even disbelieving is a threat

Veritas Aequitas wrote:Try drawing cartoons of Muhammad in front of a popular mosque in Luton Town or Birmingham UK on a Friday after their prayers, it is likely you won't be alive to experience the consequences.

So why would I do that? I don't think they would find it funny.

To bang on "personal experiences' is not an intelligent nor wise thing to do especially when you are killed in the personal event.
Surely you have sufficient intelligence to infer based on real empirical evidences that are going on around the world at present and possible in the future?

??? That is a very confused pile of bollocks. How could I bang on about anything if I am DEAD!!

Ahhh!! So it's ok for you to expect me to "infer" something, but when I stated "that it stands to reason that IF there is a God, that our actions will affect our destiny (karma)", you replied "I want direct empirical evidences instead of speculated inferences."
I've provided empirical evidence, one needs to be rational about such things to comprehend it, and intelligent enough to infer what the existence of this entity entails with the implications upon our lives and the decisions we make.

Keep trying Philosophy Exploring.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:41 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:58 am

What non-theistic religions?

Buddhism is non-theistic, Nontheist Quakers, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religion

Ok. But you stated:- I believe the most optimal solutions to ease the cognitive dissonances from the inherent existential crisis is resorting to theism or the above (non-theism)
I'm truly not sure what you are alluding to. Why are you such a confused chap?

You are self-confusing yourself by deliberately leaving out the critical point, note again,

VA wrote:I believe the most optimal solutions to ease the cognitive dissonances from the inherent existential crisis is resorting to theism or non-theistic religions at the present phase of evolution.
But the cons of theism are outweighing its pros and we move towards the future, as such humanity need to wean off theism to be replace by more effective & foolproof non-theistic methods.

So what is so confusing with my full statement.

Point is theism or non-theistic religions in the future when the critical conditions naturally change in time.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 am

attofishpi wrote: I am certain murders, rapes, child molestation is increasing as a result in the growth of non-belief. I am not saying theists don't commit these acts, but when they do they are the greater fool. When I see a child murdered by someone on the news, as occurred recently to a 9 year old girl murdered by her step-father, I very much doubt that """man""" has any belief in the existence of God.

Note the recent killings, murders, rapes, honor killings, killing of apostates, homosexuals etc. by Muslims Jihadists of ISIS and others which are sanctioned by their God in their holy texts.

Can we attempt to avoid believers in the Quran, may I suggest we stick to Christianity, if at least for simplicities sake. And when I state Christianity, I am talking about individuals who believe in the word of Christ as the extent of what it is to be Christian, and act according to His word(s).

We are referring to theism in general, so cannot exclude theistic Islam.
I believe Christianity-proper [confined to the Gospel re Christ] is the most effective and optimal to deal with the existential crisis in the PRESESNT PHASE of humanity but not for the future when humans are more aware of greater potential complex threats that humanity will be facing.
The greater complex threats are for examples, limited resources on Earth, global warming, increasing population, threat of rogue asteriods that could smash the Earth into smithereens, the need to colonize other planets. etc. The doctrines of religions [Christianity, etc.] will be a hindrance to the progress in dealing with these complex global threats.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 amThere are news of murders, rapes, child molestation but do you have the real evidences?

Well that is a strange statement - on the one hand you state the news of such terrible acts, but are you suggesting murders, rapes, child molestation do not occur, that the news journalists, court reporters, police are all making stuff up?

Note the ? I am asking you.
Then I stated I have the evidences re Steven Pinker.

attofishpi wrote:

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:01 amThe Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined is a 2011 book by Steven Pinker, in which the author argues that violence in the world has declined both in the long run and in the short run and suggests explanations as to why this has occurred.[1] The book uses data simply documenting declining violence across time and geography.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bette ... Our_Nature

Note the legal abolishment of chattel slavery by the secular community without any help from a God.

How would you know? In the least, a great deal of help came from believers in God, including this chap:- William Wilberforce (24 August 1759 – 29 July 1833) was a British politician, philanthropist, and a leader of the movement to abolish the slave trade. A native of Kingston upon Hull, Yorkshire, he began his political career in 1780, eventually becoming an independent Member of Parliament (MP) for Yorkshire (1784–1812). In 1785, he became an evangelical Christian, which resulted in major changes to his lifestyle and a lifelong concern for reform.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce

Some months ago I was walking my dog and listening to talk back radio about someone...from memory was a theist Quaker or ordained priest and was instrumental in abolishing slavery in the US early days.

I believe whilst they are Christian, their propensity to be anti-slaver is not directly from the Bible because the Christian Bible does not condemn slavery outright.
As such their anti-slavery drive is from their inherent natural human moral impulse, not so much that they are Christians.

Ahhh!! So it's ok for you to expect me to "infer" something, but when I stated "that it stands to reason that IF there is a God, that our actions will affect our destiny (karma)", you replied "I want direct empirical evidences instead of speculated inferences."
I've provided empirical evidence, one needs to be rational about such things to comprehend it, and intelligent enough to infer what the existence of this entity entails with the implications upon our lives and the decisions we make.

Keep trying Philosophy Exploring.

Note I have argued your inference of a God existing as real is driven by an existential crisis.
So many people have also claimed God exists based on drugs, hallucinogens, brain damage, out of the blue, mental illness, stress, fears, dreams, etc. etc.
I have also reasoned out and argued Why it is impossible for God to exists as real.
God is an Impossibility to be Real
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704

Given the above, thus there is a very strong doubt whether God really exists as real.
To clear such strong doubts one will have to provide verifiable and justifiable direct empirical evidences that God exists as real within the scientific framework.
I believe this is a very reasonable demand.

_______

Veritas Aequitas wrote [bracketed interjection mine]:

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:26 am Given the above, thus there is a very strong doubt [in my mind] whether God really exists as real.
To clear such strong doubts one will have to provide verifiable and justifiable direct empirical evidences that God exists as real within the scientific framework.
I believe this is a very reasonable demand.

And I believe that it is a reasonable demand for you to answer the following questions which are based on a simple little philosophical thought experiment:

• If science discovered direct (and irrefutable) proof that your life (your mind and consciousness) will continue on after death in a higher form in a higher and more desirable context of reality,...
  
  (I'm talking about a higher context of reality that makes our present context of reality seem like some kind of hell in comparison)
  
  ...and that all you had to do to enter this higher context of reality was to "open a door" and step across the threshold (i.e., find a quick and painless way of inducing death - with death being the metaphorical "doorway"),...
  
  ...what would you do?
  
  Would you stay here and needlessly endure the pains and sufferings of this lower context of reality until death eventually finds you anyway - or - would you simply walk through the doorway right now and enter into the, again, "scientifically verified" higher context of reality?

(Again, this is just a simple little "thought experiment," so try to keep your answer within the bounds of its premise.)
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:24 pm _______

Veritas Aequitas wrote [bracketed interjection mine]:

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:26 am Given the above, thus there is a very strong doubt [in my mind] whether God really exists as real.
To clear such strong doubts one will have to provide verifiable and justifiable direct empirical evidences that God exists as real within the scientific framework.
I believe this is a very reasonable demand.

And I believe that it is a reasonable demand for you to answer the following questions which are based on a simple little philosophical thought experiment:

• If science discovered direct (and irrefutable) proof that your life (your mind and consciousness) will continue on after death in a higher form in a higher and more desirable context of reality,...
  
  (I'm talking about a higher context of reality that makes our present context of reality seem like some kind of hell in comparison)
  
  ...and that all you had to do to enter this higher context of reality was to "open a door" and step across the threshold (i.e., find a quick and painless way of inducing death - with death being the metaphorical "doorway"),...
  
  ...what would you do?
  
  Would you stay here and needlessly endure the pains and sufferings of this lower context of reality until death eventually finds you anyway - or - would you simply walk through the doorway right now and enter into the, again, "scientifically verified" higher context of reality?

(Again, this is just a simple little "thought experiment," so try to keep your answer within the bounds of its premise.)
_______

IF,
science discovered direct (and irrefutable) proof that your life (your mind and consciousness) will continue on after [physical] death in a higher form in a higher and more desirable context of reality,...
note [physical death]

and if the above is accepted with consensus by all scientists related to the subject,
then I will agree to it on the condition of the specific credible scientific FSK.

"I don't like when someone responds to a particular point I make where a pertinent point to both sides of the coin is omitted.

I wrote:-
I am certain murders, rapes, child molestation is increasing as a result in the growth of non-belief. I am not saying theists don't commit these acts, but when they do they are the greater fool. When I see a child murdered by someone on the news, as occurred recently to a 9 year old girl murdered by her step-father, I very much doubt that """man""" has any belief in the existence of God."

Yeah no I saw that... both sides of the coin, so relax. I'm just looking at one side: the part about the correlation between crime and atheism.

I did six years in prison (two different bids, four different prisons), and I met not a single inmate who was an atheist.

And I don't mean they were once atheists and became religious when they got locked up, hoping to save their asses. No, these guys were always religious.

The point i meant to make in that last post is that it's not necessarily true that a Christian belief in god would stop a person from commiting a crime. And this is for reasons that I outlined. The religion is too frivolous, too easy. A criminal can wash away an entire life of crime simply by 'repenting' (whatever the fuck that means) for five minutes, and the golden gates open right up for him.

If that's the case, I wouldn't wanna go to heaven even if I got a free first class ticket.

"In heaven, all the interesting people are missing" - FN

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:02 am IF,
science discovered direct (and irrefutable) proof that your life (your mind and consciousness) will continue on after [physical] death in a higher form in a higher and more desirable context of reality,...
note [physical death]

and if the above is accepted with consensus by all scientists related to the subject,
then I will agree to it on the condition of the specific credible scientific FSK.

You would agree to what?

The question was:

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:24 pm Would you stay here and needlessly endure the pains and sufferings of this lower context of reality until death eventually finds you anyway - or - would you simply walk through the doorway right now and enter into the, again, "scientifically verified" higher context of reality?

What is your answer to that question?

For the sake of avoiding ambiguity, here are your answer choices:

• 1. I would walk through the doorway right now and enter into the "scientifically-proven" higher context of reality and thus avoid the pains and sufferings of this lower context of reality.
  
  2. I would needlessly endure the pains and sufferings of this lower context of reality and simply wait until [physical] death finds me.

So, which would it be, number 1 or number 2?
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:20 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:02 am IF,
science discovered direct (and irrefutable) proof that your life (your mind and consciousness) will continue on after [physical] death in a higher form in a higher and more desirable context of reality,...
note [physical death]

and if the above is accepted with consensus by all scientists related to the subject,
then I will agree to it on the condition of the specific credible scientific FSK.

You would agree to what?

The question was:

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:24 pm Would you stay here and needlessly endure the pains and sufferings of this lower context of reality until death eventually finds you anyway - or - would you simply walk through the doorway right now and enter into the, again, "scientifically verified" higher context of reality?

What is your answer to that question?

For the sake of avoiding ambiguity, here are your answer choices:

• 1. I would walk through the doorway right now and enter into the "scientifically-proven" higher context of reality and thus avoid the pains and sufferings of this lower context of reality.
  
  2. I would needlessly endure the pains and sufferings of this lower context of reality and simply wait until [physical] death finds me.

So, which would it be, number 1 or number 2?
_______

IF,
science discovered direct (and irrefutable) proof that your life (your mind and consciousness) will continue on after [physical] death in a higher form in a higher and more desirable context of reality,...
note [physical death]

and if the above is accepted with consensus by all scientists related to the subject,
then I will agree to it on the condition of the specific credible scientific FSK,

Whilst I agree to the above 'scientific proven' point, based on my current state, I will not accept option 1.

• 1. I would walk through the doorway right now and enter into the "scientifically-proven" higher context of reality and thus avoid the pains and sufferings of this lower context of reality.

If the only alternative is 2, so be it.

Btw, I am just playing your big IF game which I believe is non-sensical to start with.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:50 am Whilst I agree to the above 'scientific proven' point, based on my current state, I will not accept option 1....

...Btw, I am just playing your big IF game which I believe is non-sensical to start with.

Come on now V, just play along with me a little longer.

You can't base your decision on your "current" state.

As a slight variation of the thought experiment, you have to base it on the fanciful scenario of there being a literal doorway standing before you. Make that a sliding glass door through-which you could literally see your departed friends and loved ones - still alive in a new and wonderful setting - summoning you to join them.

And all you have to do is open the sliding glass door and step across the threshold and all of your "current" doubts and questions about reality and of the status of your ultimate purpose for existing will finally be answered.

Do you actually believe that an intelligent and inquiring person (such as yourself) could resist (ignore) such a temptation and simply carry on in your "current" state of mind?
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:40 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:50 am Whilst I agree to the above 'scientific proven' point, based on my current state, I will not accept option 1....

...Btw, I am just playing your big IF game which I believe is non-sensical to start with.

Come on now V, just play along with me a little longer.

You can't base your decision on your "current" state.

As a slight variation of the thought experiment, you have to base it on the fanciful scenario of there being a literal doorway standing before you. Make that a sliding glass door through-which you could literally see your departed friends and loved ones - still alive in a new and wonderful setting - summoning you to join them.

And all you have to do is open the sliding glass door and step across the threshold and all of your "current" doubts and questions about reality and of the status of your ultimate purpose for existing will finally be answered.

Do you actually believe that an intelligent and inquiring person (such as yourself) could resist (ignore) such a temptation and simply carry on in your "current" state of mind?
_______

It is based on my intelligence, rationality and wisdom that I will not want to play the above nonsensical games.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:42 am It is based on my intelligence, rationality and wisdom that I will not want to play the above nonsensical games.

Well then, if such is the case, then you are demonstrating that you aren't the slightest bit interested in exploring the world-changing effect that...

"...verifiable and justifiable direct empirical evidences that God exists as real within the scientific framework...."

...would have on humanity.
_______

promethean75 wrote:

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:51 am "I don't like when someone responds to a particular point I make where a pertinent point to both sides of the coin is omitted.

I am certain murders, rapes, child molestation is increasing as a result in the growth of non-belief. I am not saying theists don't commit these acts, but when they do they are the greater fool. When I see a child murdered by someone on the news, as occurred recently to a 9 year old girl murdered by her step-father, I very much doubt that """man""" has any belief in the existence of God."

Yeah no I saw that... both sides of the coin, so relax. I'm just looking at one side: the part about the correlation between crime and atheism.

Telling someone to relax, when you want them to relax is the last thing to even contemplate saying...if indeed, you want them to relax - as you would know, being told by an adversary to relax tends to inflame the situation. That's twice you have done it with me.

btw - quote me in future -so I get notified you have had something to say to me.

promethean75 wrote:I did six years in prison (two different bids, four different prisons), and I met not a single inmate who was an atheist.

And I don't mean they were once atheists and became religious when they got locked up, hoping to save their asses. No, these guys were always religious.

No atheists in prison!! - And you were the only gay in the village?

LMFAO - Let me get this right. Everyone you met in prison believe in God - even while they committed what?? ..and there's the rub - how many Latino gang members with the crucifix tattooed across their skin? Does that signify them as a Christian to you?

Fuck off that they are Christians - or woteva. They missed the point - belief in Christ doesn't get U off the hook. These stupid fuckers have found the lure, caught, court.

promethean75 wrote:The point i meant to make in that last post is that it's not necessarily true that a Christian belief in god would stop a person from commiting a crime. And this is for reasons that I outlined. The religion is too frivolous, too easy. A criminal can wash away an entire life of crime simply by 'repenting' (whatever the fuck that means) for five minutes, and the golden gates open right up for him.

Again, the buy_bull lure, caught, court - man's JUSTICE - JUST_ICE. Those fools at the level of murder, rape - are the even greater fool than an atheist - as if they could USE the sacrifice of God and what He went through as a MAN - to get them off, said, hook.

Shit ain't like that.

"And you were the only gay in the village?"

The fuck did you just call me?

Philosophy Now wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:25 pm The following readers’ answers to this central philosophical question each win a random book.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/65/How ... in_Related

The brain studying the brain is a self-referentiality pointing to the circular form called "mind". Mind is inseperable from form as it is imprinted by form; the most universal form (ie the form that embodies all forms) is the circle; a universal mind would work circularly.