For the discussion of all things philosophical.
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Not even then, in some cases: https://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/ ... ay-vpx.cnnvegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:14 amIt would seem that those idiots only 'believe' in the virus when they are dying of it.
Personally I wouldn't get too caught up in attributing this sort of thing to any party or political wing. It just so happens that the worst groupthink-freethink conspiracists I know of from the Americas are all on this forum and very much from the right side of the political spectrum, but their equivalents over here are pretty evenly distributed between far left and far right.uwot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:36 amThat's religion and politics in a nutshell.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:13 amThere seems to be two sorts of conspiracy theorist in general. I think you are describing the classic sort of tinfoil hat wearer who continually stumbles upon new evidence of malpractice. That guy somehow gets himself embroiled in mystery every time he brushes his teeth, always somehow in proximity to events larger than mere Earthly politics.
Then there's the other sort. The conspiracist stuff for those guys is part and parcel of belonging to a group...Which is when religion and politics become dangerous. What has happened across the pond, it seems to me, is that the Republican party has given up trying to be a coalition of interests, opting instead to appeal only to the hard of thinking among a shrinking demographic. This despite knowing full well that they cannot command a majority; as Trump said: “The things they had in there were crazy. They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again.” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... oronavirus Still, if you're going to rely on one section of the electorate, it makes sense to choose the one which is most heavily armed.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:13 am...always praising themselves for being truly independent thinkers while, coincidentally of course, all arriving at the same set of group defining beliefs about other groups telling them lies.
Ironically, the pandemic might have saved us from god knows what Trump would have done with four more years, thanks to his inept and callous handling of the situation - which should p**** the interest of some of our indigenous conspiracy nuts. It seems that some people are more loyal to the conspiracy than to Trump, given that he was booed when he recommended getting vaccinated. Perhaps the booers are your first type of conspiracy nut.Aren't they just?FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:13 amThe story element seems to be that the only story tellers to be trusted are the ones telling them what they want to hear about who the bad guys are, once you've established that the bad men want to tell you X, then "we" (completely independently, but in lock step) believe Y. After that, evidence is all negotiable because group loyalty determines from whom you are willing to accept evidence, and you will reject that which originates from sources your group doesn't trust. They are totally independent, utterly free thinking conformists.
Unbelievable. At least this guy admitted he was wrong...just before he died...uwot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:44 amNot even then, in some cases: https://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/ ... ay-vpx.cnnvegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:14 amIt would seem that those idiots only 'believe' in the virus when they are dying of it.
Yeah, but vaccine hesitancy correlates pretty strongly with states which voted red.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:50 am Personally I wouldn't get too caught up in attributing this sort of thing to any party or political wing. It just so happens that the worst groupthink-freethink conspiracists I know of from the Americas are all on this forum and very much from the right side of the political spectrum, but their equivalents over here are pretty evenly distributed between far left and far right.
Quite. I don't imagine that conspiracy nuts are confined to the right wing; my point is that the Mein Kampf reading Trump and his cronies have been more brazen about exploiting groupthink than seasoned politicians would let on.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:50 amPersonally I wouldn't get too caught up in attributing this sort of thing to any party or political wing. It just so happens that the worst groupthink-freethink conspiracists I know of from the Americas are all on this forum and very much from the right side of the political spectrum, but their equivalents over here are pretty evenly distributed between far left and far right.
Yes, I have the occasional uncomfortable exchange with friends on both sides of the spectrum who believe stuff which, in my view, is completely batshit.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:50 amThese free minded critical thinkers tend to move like a flock of swallows, and as far as I can see it's a matter of local happenstance whether they choose to flock towards lefty or righty populism. After all, over here it's Jeremy Corbyn's brother getting arrested for throwing anti-mask tantrums. The guy is a complete Bolshevik but he wouldn't look out of place in a maga hat right now.
Great political move by the conspiracy nuts too. Accusing politicians of exploiting groupthink first so they can't accuse you back without looking like muppets.
Indeed: Followers who claim to be independent because they're not following one path, while they follow another.FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:13 am evidence is all negotiable because group loyalty determines from whom you are willing to accept evidence, and you will reject that which originates from sources your group doesn't trust. They are totally independent, utterly free thinking conformists.
Being aware doesn't require watching for something. If you watch for threats, you're probably going to start seeing them, because you want to be "right" to be watching for them in the first place. So you start seeing/imagining wolves everywhere -- because the more you see, the more "right" you were.henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:36 pm Better, I think, to watch for wolves than to pretend wolves don't exist.
Mebbe so. Everyone is biased. We all skew. Doesn't however make us all wrong.Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:32 pmBeing aware doesn't require watching for something. If you watch for threats, you're probably going to start seeing them, because you want to be "right" to be watching for them in the first place. So you start seeing/imagining wolves everywhere -- because the more you see, the more "right" you were.henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:36 pm Better, I think, to watch for wolves than to pretend wolves don't exist.
Well, if everyone I listen to is a bullshitter then you must be a bullshitter too.
Bullshit. Hospitals keep record.henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:12 pm Here, the CDC stopped keepin' records for breakthroughs so we have no accurate account of how many jabbed folks there are, in-hospital, for beer virus infection. Israel has done a much better job of keepin' count.
Vaccination rate in San Diego is 78% which means immunity rate is even higher.henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:12 pm Mebbe so. Or, mebbe, natural population immunity set in and the numbers dropped simply cuz most are no longer susceptible.