Philosophy Now Forum

Oh, don't be silly.

Sri Ramana Maharshi was not escaping reality.
His view is understood by the saying: “Wherever I go, there I am.”
Plus, the mountain where he parked it is recognized as sacred, and not just by him.
The sacred place is reality, so there is no need to leave it.
Especially when the world came to him and built an ashram around him.

When he was young and searching, UG went to see Sri Ramana Maharshi.
There's a rather famous quotation associated with that, and it's said to have affected UG deeply.

“When the past is not in operation there is no ‘present’ at all, for what you are calling the ‘present’ is the past repeating itself. In an actual state of ‘here and now’ there is no past in operation and, therefore, no future. I do not know if you are following me.... The only way the past can survive and maintain its continuity is through the constant demand to experience the same thing over and over. That is why life has become a bore. Life has become boring because we have made of it a repetitive thing. So what we mistakenly call the ‘present’ is really the repetitive past projecting a fictitious future. Your goals, your search, your aspirations are cast in that mould.”
- Mind is a Myth

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:47 am I mean imagine if every single human being awakened from the dream to realise no one is living life

There might be another kind of realization. Such as: ALL is FINE. After all, what is not fine about a dream?

If everyone could share that kind of realization... I think it might be awesome.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:09 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:47 am I mean imagine if every single human being awakened from the dream to realise no one is living life

There might be another kind of realization. Such as: ALL is FINE. After all, what is not fine about a dream?

If everyone could share that kind of realization... I think it might be awesome.

I agree.

Everything is fine exactly the way it is...even the complainer that the fine is not fine, and that the fine is absolutely awful, is also THIS FINE DREAM.

The dream is all there is, and it's all fine, even when it's not fine, that's also fine. The reality that life is a dream, and that every dreamt thing is indistinguishable from the dreamer is the ultimate realisation, which is God Consciousness.

God being another word Consciousness. Both words God and Consciousness being identical.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:04 pm Oh, don't be silly.

Sri Ramana Maharshi was not escaping reality.

I never said he was escaping from reality, I simply said he recoiled from the dramatic shenanigans that is reality.
Why don't you stop putting words in my mouth I did not say, dumb bitch.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:04 pmHis view is understood by the saying: “Wherever I go, there I am.”
Plus, the mountain where he parked it is recognized as sacred, and not just by him.
The sacred place is reality, so there is no need to leave it.
Especially when the world came to him and built an ashram around him.

I said he left the trappings - I did not say he left ''actual reality'' ..stop assuming things I did not say, dumb bitch.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:04 pmWhen he was young and searching, UG went to see Sri Ramana Maharshi.
There's a rather famous quotation associated with that, and it's said to have affected UG deeply.

No one cares what games these clowns get up to in their spare time...God realisation is within every mind, there is no other mind to teach you the realisation that you are God, except you.

There is only ONE and you're IT

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:58 pm..stop assuming things I did not say, dumb bitch.

Imagine the voice of Dr. Venkman saying:

Although forgettable as a dream, your contributions serve to springboard truth to manifest as response, and they conveniently often serve that function by their mere existence as an example of irrelevant ignorance awakened into the energy dimension of voice, by highlighting as a stark counterpoint to the style, content, and inherent elegance of truth, truth which for hoomans exists as more than the barking of a female dog sniffing the ass of Idaho.




Have you ever noticed that there are few things more tedious than someone yammering on about their night dreams? That's why therapists command a high wage, because they've been trained to withstand a whole hour of the onslaught.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:48 pm it's all fine, even when it's not fine, that's also fine

Yes!

What do you imagine life might be like if most/everyone saw it that way?

Would such a continual recognition destroy or enhance life?

Would people really waste their energy in self-defeating pursuits? (Or might such pursuits be the result of not recognizing that all is fine?)

When all the limiting and controlling stories fall away, what would we do with ourselves?

Would some still desire there to be an 'end point'?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pm

What do you imagine life might be like if most/everyone saw it that way?

Same as it ever was, is, and ever will be...imho

Or, they might choose to end the game of life, since they are the ones who have created it. Or, they might decide to keep playing the game over and over again, like I do when I play ''Animal Crossing''.

When I delete one game, I know I can start all over again playing the same game, except it will have a very different look to it. So it's like what is the same can always appear to look different ..simply because creation is infinite in it's potential. In so far as there are a multidude of facets to creation, the variables are endless.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pmWould such a continual recognition destroy or enhance life?

In my own experience, it's about finding that 'sweet spot' where there is a perfect balance of yin yang energy known by the mystics as the middle way. It's about having no desire or preference for whatever happens, and just bearing out the outcome with whole acceptance and surrender, since one who has fully awakened has come to realise one is God consciousness which is never needy, and always whole and complete in every instant...or something like that

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pmWould people really waste their energy in self-defeating pursuits? (Or might such pursuits be the result of not recognizing that all is fine?)

Within the dream of separation from source, we are each walking our own unique path back to our original source, which never left us by the way...it was us that left...
In the innate sense to reconnect with perfect source, each fractal of the universe apparently fragmented from it's original source will always reunite if it so desires, simply because there was never a separation there to begin with. In essence, there is no path to source until we carve one out by walking it.

The truth that we are already perfect oneness, forgetting we are whole, is why we set out carving the path.. because in that forgetting, comes the innate sense that all is not well, so the drive to want to come together again is imperative and mostly impulsive...or something like that...

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pmWhen all the limiting and controlling stories fall away, what would we do with ourselves?

Same as we've always done with ourselves, living our lives. Even as we each and every one of us make paradigm shifts through one awakening after another, we eventually discover that 'sweet spot' and live from that place..that I mentioned earlier.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pmWould some still desire there to be an 'end point'?

It depends on the personality of the character. Some characters feel like they're done here, and just want to rest up, and are content and happy to do so. While for others, it's business as usual, where nothing really changes for them.

But of course these are just my self bias opinions on the matter, you could have your own views on the matter that will be totally different to mine. But since the questions were directed at me personally, I have answered them with all honesty and integrity based on my own experiences.

.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:09 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:47 am I mean imagine if every single human being awakened from the dream to realise no one is living life

There might be another kind of realization. Such as: ALL is FINE. After all, what is not fine about a dream?

If everyone could share that kind of realization... I think it might be awesome.

Imagine being a child born into abuse, with no way of escaping. Now is that kind of realization REALLY "ALL is FINE"?

Do you REALLY think it might be awesome to HAVE TO live in that REAL kind of existence?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:48 pm it's all fine, even when it's not fine, that's also fine

Yes!

This is EXACTLY HOW people allow "themselves" to keep abusing "others". They keep telling "themselves", and "others", that "its all fine", or "it's for your own good", while continually beating and abusing them.

You can keep telling "yourself" that "it's all fine" while you are abusing "others" "lacewing", but do you REALLY believe that this is the right thing to do?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pm What do you imagine life might be like if most/everyone saw it that way?

A self-justified abusive life.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pm Would such a continual recognition destroy or enhance life?

That all depends on what you are doing. For example if you are continually abusing "yourself" or "others", then that will OBVIOUSLY destroy life. However, if you are continually what is good and right in Life for "yourself" and "others", then this will OBVIOUSLY enhance life.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pm Would people really waste their energy in self-defeating pursuits?

Will you provide examples of 'self-defeating' pursuits?

If no, then why not?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pm (Or might such pursuits be the result of not recognizing that all is fine?)

If ANY one is being abused, then OBVIOUSLY NOT 'all is fine'. This just goes without saying.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pm When all the limiting and controlling stories fall away, what would we do with ourselves?

Well when you STOP making up the many limiting and controlling stories, which you do, then what you will do is START SEEING what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, instead.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pm Would some still desire there to be an 'end point'?

An 'end point' to what, EXACTLY?

Do you desire an 'end point'?

If no, then WHY do you ASSUME some do?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:03 am When I delete one game, I know I can start all over again playing the same game, except it will have a very different look to it. So it's like what is the same can always appear to look different ..simply because creation is infinite in it's potential. In so far as there are a multidude of facets to creation, the variables are endless.

Thank you for answering the questions I posed.

I think there's endless potential too, and we can play/experience it (or not) however we want. I think there's also more than our current game level to experience and create in. Do you?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:03 am In my own experience, it's about finding that 'sweet spot' where there is a perfect balance of yin yang energy known by the mystics as the middle way.

I like that balanced sweet spot too. Sweetness and fire... great fun.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:03 amIt's about having no desire or preference for whatever happens, and just bearing out the outcome with whole acceptance and surrender, since one who has fully awakened has come to realise one is God consciousness which is never needy, and always whole and complete in every instant...or something like that

Yes, I like that. I also like playing and creating on this stage. Sometimes it feels like moving through multiple levels/worlds.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:03 am Within the dream of separation from source, we are each walking our own unique path back to our original source, which never left us by the way...it was us that left...
In the innate sense to reconnect with perfect source, each fractal of the universe apparently fragmented from it's original source will always reunite if it so desires, simply because there was never a separation there to begin with. In essence, there is no path to source until we carve one out by walking it.

Personally, I don't think of it as a fracturing... or as finding my way 'back'. I know a lot of religions teach that, and I don't claim to know of a way that it is for everyone. I'm just saying, it doesn't feel that way to me. It feels complete. All now. All here. And all perfect and fine as we create and participate and play it out with endless 'divine' potential.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:03 amThe truth that we are already perfect oneness, forgetting we are whole, is why we set out carving the path.. because in that forgetting, comes the innate sense that all is not well, so the drive to want to come together again is imperative and mostly impulsive...or something like that...

So, is it possible -- do you think -- to sense the wholeness while in this world, and embrace participating and being here?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:45 pm
Thank you for answering the questions I posed.

You're welcome Lacy.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:45 pmI think there's endless potential too, and we can play/experience it (or not) however we want. I think there's also more than our current game level to experience and create in. Do you?

Absolutely yes. Potential is infinite, I'm sure our little corner of the universe is just a minute (small) scratching of the surface in comparison to the 'everything' there is, was, and ever will be. Watch this space! as the saying goes.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:45 pmI like that balanced sweet spot too. Sweetness and fire... great fun.

Yes, like fire and ice. Does the ice evaporate the fire, or does the fire evaporate the ice.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:45 pmYes, I like that. I also like playing and creating on this stage. Sometimes it feels like moving through multiple levels/worlds.

Yes, it's like we are each our own 'individual universe' nested within 'infinity' itself. Each and every 'individual mind' is like a parallel dimension, alternate universe, or alternate reality in and of itself, hypothetically speaking, all co-existing with one's own mind. The sum of all minds existing together as one "multiverse".
In other words, we are each and all of us, just one of many little 'universes' playing our individuated role, upon this infinite stage. The potential of creation is vastly incomprehensible beyond our wildest imaginations.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:45 pmPersonally, I don't think of it as a fracturing... or as finding my way 'back'. I know a lot of religions teach that, and I don't claim to know of a way that it is for everyone. I'm just saying, it doesn't feel that way to me. It feels complete. All now. All here. And all perfect and fine as we create and participate and play it out with endless 'divine' potential.

The fractal nature of reality is a metaphorical pointing to the nature of duality that's all. In truth, there is only oneness, the separation is the illusory dream where there is the sense of otherness. This sense of self and other, is highly developed in humans, where they become aware of opposites, of death and life... they know they are born and that they will die, and so in that knowledge, a sense of empathy arises for every 'sentient creature' knowing that they too, also feel the exact same sensations and emotions as they do... I know I'm just stating the obvious that you already know.
But just wanted to say that the illusory sense of separation is all part of the game oneness plays with itself.

But if like you say, you have never felt this fracturing, then good for you. It's not always been that way for me as I became fluent in language, I became aware that to know the meaning of wholeness I also had to know the meaning of fragmentation....that's why I was drawn to the teachings of nonduality at a very young age, because I instinctively knew that what nonduality was pointing to, was the true real nature of being. And I'm sure that's what you have always felt too. and is what you mean by having the sense that everything is always fine.

We are on the same page Lacewing, and I've always known that. And that's why I like you, I respect the person you are, because I see myself in you a lot.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:45 pmSo, is it possible -- do you think -- to sense the wholeness while in this world, and embrace participating and being here?

Yes.

For me personally, I have a love hate relationship with life. I cannot make up my mind whether I love life, or I hate, so I just came up with the idea by myself of embracing both sides of the story, with total surrender and acceptance, and that's what I called the ''sweet spot''

.



Instead of being what you are -- unkind -- you pursue the fictitious opposite put before you -- kindness. To emphasize what we SHOULD be only causes strain, giving momentum to what we already in fact are. In nature we find the animals at one time violent and brutal, at others kind and generous. For them there is no contradiction. But man is told he must be always good, kind, loving, and never greedy or violent. We emphasize only one side of reality, thus distorting the whole picture. This trying to have one without the other is creating tremendous strain, sorrow, pain, and misery for man. Man must face the necessary violence in life; you must kill to live, one form of life thrives on another. And yet you have condemned killing.
- Mind Is A Myth





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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:05 am The potential of creation is vastly incomprehensible beyond our wildest imaginations.

I think so too. And it seems funny when we claim to 'know' all about it.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:05 am the illusory sense of separation is all part of the game oneness plays with itself.

So it's all good, even when it doesn't feel like it.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:05 amBut if like you say, you have never felt this fracturing, then good for you. It's not always been that way for me as I became fluent in language, I became aware that to know the meaning of wholeness I also had to know the meaning of fragmentation....that's why I was drawn to the teachings of nonduality at a very young age, because I instinctively knew that what nonduality was pointing to, was the true real nature of being.

Here's how it seems to me. I arrived in this world, observing all around me. I felt no sense of existential separation. Rather, I innately felt to be a part of all of it -- and as my immediate reality unfolded, I recognized it was up to me to navigate and survive it. Later I realized it was up to me to make the best of it that I could. When the human programming ramped up, that is when I learned about separation. And my Christian upbringing taught me about concepts such as good and evil. I already knew innately above love and 'divine' connection.

In my twenties, after a bombardment of programming from all directions, I began to seek a return to my innate initial awareness. And I continued checking-in on that while being fully engulfed on the stage of life, and going down various paths for experience and entertainment. Eventually, I desired less noise and more clarity, and that led me to being more in-line with my initial innate observation and connectedness. But now, because of all I've learned and experienced on the life stage, I am also compelled to play while I'm here. It's an interesting dance between observing and playing... which I recognize in your writings too. I just feel like I have to make fun of your apparent 'seriousness' sometimes. I encourage you to make fun of mine.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:05 amI have a love hate relationship with life. I cannot make up my mind whether I love life, or I hate, so I just came up with the idea by myself of embracing both sides of the story, with total surrender and acceptance, and that's what I called the ''sweet spot''

I see that. As my good friend says, "You can't get this wrong." He also says, "What else are we supposed to do with eternity?" The friends I've become drawn together with seem to be of like-mind (or else we inspire each other to attune together). Although we struggle through life just like any human being does, we don't fully buy into the notion that it's so completely 'serious'. We are able to laugh at our own and each other's 'mishaps'. An exclamation of "Crap!" is usually followed by laughter. When we can't laugh, we roll around in the muck until we're ready to stop, while our friends offer us sympathy. Perhaps the recognition that we CAN STOP is because we have experienced that there is MORE than that, and that WE are more than that.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:53 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:05 am The potential of creation is vastly incomprehensible beyond our wildest imaginations.

I think so too. And it seems funny when we claim to 'know' all about it.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:05 am the illusory sense of separation is all part of the game oneness plays with itself.

So it's all good, even when it doesn't feel like it.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:05 amBut if like you say, you have never felt this fracturing, then good for you. It's not always been that way for me as I became fluent in language, I became aware that to know the meaning of wholeness I also had to know the meaning of fragmentation....that's why I was drawn to the teachings of nonduality at a very young age, because I instinctively knew that what nonduality was pointing to, was the true real nature of being.

Here's how it seems to me. I arrived in this world, observing all around me. I felt no sense of existential separation. Rather, I innately felt to be a part of all of it -- and as my immediate reality unfolded, I recognized it was up to me to navigate and survive it. Later I realized it was up to me to make the best of it that I could. When the human programming ramped up, that is when I learned about separation. And my Christian upbringing taught me about concepts such as good and evil. I already knew innately above love and 'divine' connection.

In my twenties, after a bombardment of programming from all directions, I began to seek a return to my innate initial awareness. And I continued checking-in on that while being fully engulfed on the stage of life, and going down various paths for experience and entertainment. Eventually, I desired less noise and more clarity, and that led me to being more in-line with my initial innate observation and connectedness. But now, because of all I've learned and experienced on the life stage, I am also compelled to play while I'm here. It's an interesting dance between observing and playing... which I recognize in your writings too. I just feel like I have to make fun of your apparent 'seriousness' sometimes. I encourage you to make fun of mine.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:05 amI have a love hate relationship with life. I cannot make up my mind whether I love life, or I hate, so I just came up with the idea by myself of embracing both sides of the story, with total surrender and acceptance, and that's what I called the ''sweet spot''

I see that. As my good friend says, "You can't get this wrong." He also says, "What else are we supposed to do with eternity?" The friends I've become drawn together with seem to be of like-mind (or else we inspire each other to attune together). Although we struggle through life just like any human being does, we don't fully buy into the notion that it's so completely 'serious'. We are able to laugh at our own and each other's 'mishaps'. An exclamation of "Crap!" is usually followed by laughter. When we can't laugh, we roll around in the muck until we're ready to stop, while our friends offer us sympathy. Perhaps the recognition that we CAN STOP is because we have experienced that there is MORE than that, and that WE are more than that.

Thankyou for your candid and very honest reply. It was a joy to read. Just so you know, I totally relate to all of your own personal life experiences. You are a relatable person, who bares no grudges, who lets go, and allows things to be. I like that.