Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Wed May 19, 2021 2:39 pm**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:53 pm
BeatriceMom wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:46 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:39 pm Do you think "emotionality and hysteria" would be part of this "toxic femininity" package? Would it be fair to say that women who are "emotional and hysterical" are just as deplorable as men who exhibit these traits are (not only to women but to other men as well)?
This is a terrible and toxic manifestation in both sexes. it's just that among women it is more common and is perceived as "the norm", because many women are not blamed for this, referring such tantrums to "female weakness."
So in your experience, part of "toxic femininity" (not of healthy femininity, of course) would be "tantrums" and "female weakness," then? Or would it be the "lack of accountability" for those, that you would say is really part of "toxic femininity"? Or both?

All together. Despite the weakness and emotionality, any capable person (of any gender) is obliged to be responsible for his/her decisions and actions. In other words, if a person is not able to take responsibility for his/her actions and be aware of his/her words, he/she should be recognized as incapacitated, toxic to others. Yes, I'm sometimes too categorical. It just pisses me off when someone does absolute shit, and then looks for the guilty.

Posted: **Wed May 19, 2021 4:05 pm**

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 2:10 pm To claim neutrality on an issue of evil, means one sees nothing wrong with it.

What's the "issue of evil" RC?

Was it the word "comments"? Because that's all you have to work with.

There are all sorts of evil in the world.

Not according to you, apparently. There's no such thing as "toxic femininity," you seem to insist.

So there are no evil women, I have to suppose you think, nothing corresponding in any way to "toxic masculinity" -- which I must assume you believe in with no such squeamishness as you now express.

It implies there are some kinds of evil that are unique to women and their being women is the cause of it.

It asks the question. And you've answered it. Either you're virtue signalling your political correctness, or you're in the grip of some sort of "madonna" complex, and don't believe women are capable of evil, it would seem. So for you, no question can be asked.

But ask yourself this: if you believe women are as capable of agency as men -- as I do -- then what makes you think they're incapable of evil, and only capable of good?

What "agency" is that, that you are granting them? It doesn't seem like you believe they have the kind of agency men have, for sure.

Men can be "toxic," you say...but women cannot.

Does ANYBODY believe that?

I have to say, though, it seems about the most "patriarchal" -- or perhaps the word is just "patronizing" -- view one could take.

Posted: **Wed May 19, 2021 4:07 pm**

BeatriceMom wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 2:39 pm All together. Despite the weakness and emotionality, any capable person (of any gender) is obliged to be responsible for his/her decisions and actions. In other words, if a person is not able to take responsibility for his/her actions and be aware of his/her words, he/she should be recognized as incapacitated, toxic to others. Yes, I'm sometimes too categorical. It just pisses me off when someone does absolute shit, and then looks for the guilty.

I totally agree. Thanks for speaking up.

Posted: **Wed May 19, 2021 6:28 pm**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:05 pm
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 2:10 pm To claim neutrality on an issue of evil, means one sees nothing wrong with it.
What's the "issue of evil" RC?

Was it the word "comments"? Because that's all you have to work with.

No! It's the prejudicial phrase, "toxic femininity;" the word you used to entitle this abomination. It's the same as accusing any caucasian that does something wrong of, "toxic whiteness," or blaming the evil someone from the Orient does on, "toxic orientalism." Your attempt to evade it are just making it worse.<p>

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:05 pm
There are all sorts of evil in the world.
Not according to you, apparently. There's no such thing as "toxic femininity," you seem to insist.

So there are no evil women, I have to suppose you think, nothing corresponding in any way to "toxic masculinity" -- which I must assume you believe in with no such squeamishness as you now express.

Either you have a reading comprehension problem or you are lying. I clearly stated:

People of all different kinds and backgrounds hurt other people. It's when someone attributes the wrong things some people do to their race or ethnicity it's racism and it's when someone attributes the wrong things some people do to their their female sex it's misogyny.

There is no implication there are no evil women, only that there are no evil women who are evil because they are women, which is what the pseudo-concept, "toxic femininity," means, as though women contained some kind of toxic venom exclusive to women. It's a vile concept.

I would no more use the expression, "toxic masculinity." than I would, "toxic Englishness," or, "toxic Jewishness," or "toxic whiteness," which are all the same kind of evil prejudice as, "toxic femininity," blaming evil on one's race, ethnicity, or sex. Apparently you have no difficulty entertaining that kind of prejudice.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:05 pm It asks the question. And you've answered it. Either you're virtue signalling your political correctness, or you're in the grip of some sort of "madonna" complex, and don't believe women are capable of evil, it would seem. So for you, no question can be asked.

Men can be "toxic," you say...but women cannot.

You ought to be shocked. It's a flat-out lie. I've already explained why I would never us that vile expression of hateful prejudice you seem to love.

I have no idea why you dislike women so much that you accuse women of some kind evil that is just because they are women. If that is not what you mean, why would you refer to the evil (toxicity) which anyone is capable of as, "feminine," as though it were a unique kind of evil of which only women were capable. Any evil a woman is capable of is because she is a human being, not because she is a woman.

Posted: **Wed May 19, 2021 6:37 pm**

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 6:28 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:05 pm
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 2:10 pm To claim neutrality on an issue of evil, means one sees nothing wrong with it.
What's the "issue of evil" RC?

Was it the word "comments"? Because that's all you have to work with.
No! It's the prejudicial phrase, "toxic femininity;"

Well, it was JP who was speaking, and pointed out the possibility of that term, and he only raised it in counterpoise to "toxic masculinity," a term most of today's media appear to accept as unproblematic and unprejudicial.

Since he was speaking in opposite point to the Feminists who themselves coined the former term, he's not to be blamed for raising the possibility they have themselves raised by implication. They opened that can of worms when they accused men of "toxicity." The obvious counterquestion cannot be eluded.

As for me, I just said, "Comments"? You've given your comment, so what's the problem? Simmer down.

I would no more use the expression, "toxic masculinity." than I would, "toxic Englishness," or, "toxic Jewishness," or "toxic whiteness," which are all the same kind of evil prejudice as, "toxic femininity," blaming evil on one's race, ethnicity, or sex.

Fair enough. But that's a comment. There's no basis for you being upset that you were asked what your opinion was. Now you've given it.

Again, what's the problem?

Posted: **Wed May 19, 2021 8:22 pm**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 6:37 pm
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 6:28 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:05 pm
What's the "issue of evil" RC?

Was it the word "comments"? Because that's all you have to work with.
No! It's the prejudicial phrase, "toxic femininity;"
Well, it was JP who was speaking, and pointed out the possibility of that term, and he only raised it in counterpoise to "toxic masculinity," a term most of today's media appear to accept as unproblematic and unprejudicial.

Since he was speaking in opposite point to the Feminists who themselves coined the former term, he's not to be blamed for raising the possibility they have themselves raised by implication. They opened that can of worms when they accused men of "toxicity." The obvious counterquestion cannot be eluded.

As for me, I just said, "Comments"? You've given your comment, so what's the problem? Simmer down.

I would no more use the expression, "toxic masculinity." than I would, "toxic Englishness," or, "toxic Jewishness," or "toxic whiteness," which are all the same kind of evil prejudice as, "toxic femininity," blaming evil on one's race, ethnicity, or sex.

Fair enough. But that's a comment. There's no basis for you being upset that you were asked what your opinion was. Now you've given it.

Again, what's the problem?

'Toxic masculinity' is a moronic American buzz-phrase as well, perpetuated by Woke American wankerism. If you insist on using vile American buzz-phrases then don't expect to be taken seriously.

Posted: **Wed May 19, 2021 10:21 pm**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:57 pm A short video: only about one minute. JP on male-female aggression. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd5vyukWL7I

Comments?

The proper dose of anything, female-aggression included, intoxicates. Hot blooded. The improper dose of anything, women included, is toxic.

Posted: **Wed May 19, 2021 10:24 pm**

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 8:22 pm 'Toxic masculinity' is a moronic American buzz-phrase as well, perpetuated by Woke American wankerism.

I totally agree -- minus the pejorative adjective, of course. But if "woke" types want us all to believe in "toxic masculinity," then they have to be equally up for the question, what's the female version.

"Sauce for goose and gander," as they say.

Interestingly, the term "toxic masculinity" has been around for some time, without much complaint from the public. But ask about this, and suddenly we've crossed a line? Why the sexism?

Posted: **Wed May 19, 2021 10:51 pm**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 10:24 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 8:22 pm 'Toxic masculinity' is a moronic American buzz-phrase as well, perpetuated by Woke American wankerism.
I totally agree -- minus the pejorative adjective, of course. But if "woke" types want us all to believe in "toxic masculinity," then they have to be equally up for the question, what's the female version.

"Sauce for goose and gander," as they say.

Interestingly, the term "toxic masculinity" has been around for some time, without much complaint from the public. But ask about this, and suddenly we've crossed a line? Why the sexism?

Probably because 'the public' is an idiot.

Posted: **Wed May 19, 2021 10:58 pm**

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 10:51 pm Probably because 'the public' is an idiot.

Well, there's something to be said for that view, for sure. The more people in a group, the more limited the intelligence motivating them, it seems.

Posted: **Thu May 20, 2021 6:57 am**

The proper dose of anything, female-aggression included, intoxicates. Hot blooded. The improper dose of anything, women included, is toxic.

Each of anything is toxic and intoxicating in its own way, including women, whiskey and water.

Proper dosages for intoxication, as distinct from poisoning, can be calculated.

However, intoxicated reasoning yields a common error: If a little be this good, then a big dose will be so much better.

Posted: **Thu May 20, 2021 2:58 pm**

Walker wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 6:57 am The proper dose of anything, female-aggression included, intoxicates. Hot blooded. The improper dose of anything, women included, is toxic.

Each of anything is toxic and intoxicating in its own way, including women, whiskey and water.

Proper dosages for intoxication, as distinct from poisoning, can be calculated.

However, intoxicated reasoning yields a common error: If a little be this good, then a big dose will be so much better.

Reminds me of two quotes from G. B. Shaw:

He who desires a lifetime of happiness with a beautiful woman desires to enjoy the taste of wine by keeping his mouth always full of it.

The most intolerable pain is produced by prolonging the keenest pleasure.

Found together in his, "Maxims for Revolutionists." A delightfully satirical read, by the way.

Posted: **Fri May 21, 2021 2:30 pm**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:07 pm
BeatriceMom wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 2:39 pm All together. Despite the weakness and emotionality, any capable person (of any gender) is obliged to be responsible for his/her decisions and actions. In other words, if a person is not able to take responsibility for his/her actions and be aware of his/her words, he/she should be recognized as incapacitated, toxic to others. Yes, I'm sometimes too categorical. It just pisses me off when someone does absolute shit, and then looks for the guilty.
I totally agree. Thanks for speaking up.

It's my pleasure. It's great that we agreed. It is very interesting when the points of view of different people coincide.

Posted: **Fri May 21, 2021 3:32 pm**

BeatriceMom wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:30 pm It's my pleasure. It's great that we agreed. It is very interesting when the points of view of different people coincide.

Yes. Such agreement is often a signal of a common truth that reality itself compels.

Posted: **Fri May 21, 2021 5:55 pm**

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:32 pm
BeatriceMom wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:30 pm It's my pleasure. It's great that we agreed. It is very interesting when the points of view of different people coincide.
Like Hitler and Hirohito. They had the same point of view, and it sure was interesting. Vile, but interesting.

Mark Twain expressed my view. When people begin to agree with me, I know I must be making a mistake.

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