For the discussion of all things philosophical.
https://canzookia.com/
Whatever that's referring to, exactly, you'd be observing some state of the device in question.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:59 pmThere are direct devices as well but they are not that sensitive yet.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:49 pmAgain, with gravitational waves, what we actually observed was a laser set-up.
What else do you expect?Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:00 pmWhatever that's referring to, exactly, you'd be observing some state of the device in question.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:59 pmThere are direct devices as well but they are not that sensitive yet.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:49 pm
Again, with gravitational waves, what we actually observed was a laser set-up.
For you to realize that we're not actually observing space or its curvature.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:11 pmWhat else do you expect?Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:00 pmWhatever that's referring to, exactly, you'd be observing some state of the device in question.
Of course not, for that you need to travel into a black-hole. Do you want to try that?Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:16 pmFor you to realize that we're not actually observing space or its curvature.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:11 pmWhat else do you expect?Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:00 pm
Whatever that's referring to, exactly, you'd be observing some state of the device in question.
The BIT above. (do I spell it out - break things down finite enough?)bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:21 pmWhat do you mean by binary here?attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:06 pm..and right there is what I keep banging on about OUR REAL_IT_Y is binary.bahman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:33 am This is believed to be the shortest distance between two points in space so-called Plank length. What is between two points? It cannot be nothing since otherwise two points obviously coincide. Therefore, there is something between the two points. This means that space is a substance. Following the same logic, it follows that time also is a substance.
bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:21 pmWhich Zeno's paradox, you are talking about here?attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:06 pm Zeno's Paradox - eventually - either there is an EVENT or there is NOT an EVENT.
If we are talking about the measurement of gravitational waves - indeed - it IS the curvature of spacetime (a resultant effect of the gravitational wave) that the LIGO experiment successfully detected.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:16 pmFor you to realize that we're not actually observing space or its curvature.bahman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:11 pmWhat else do you expect?Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:00 pm
Whatever that's referring to, exactly, you'd be observing some state of the device in question.
What was detected was changes in a laser set-up.attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:40 amIf we are talking about the measurement of gravitational waves - indeed - it IS the curvature of spacetime (a resultant effect of the gravitational wave) that the LIGO experiment successfully detected.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:16 pmFor you to realize that we're not actually observing space or its curvature.
Well of course they use lasers - the most accurate measurement device at our disposal to detect such an infinitesimal small thing as a fluctuation in SPACETIME - they are however, detecting the curvature of SPACETIME - space and time cannot be separated otherwise calling such a things as a 'gravitational wave' is redundant.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:58 pmWhat was detected was changes in a laser set-up.attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:40 amIf we are talking about the measurement of gravitational waves - indeed - it IS the curvature of spacetime (a resultant effect of the gravitational wave) that the LIGO experiment successfully detected.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:16 pm
For you to realize that we're not actually observing space or its curvature.
No. We're detecting changes in the laser set-up. We theorize that those changes have something to do with a spacetime curvature, based on particular ontological views about what spacetime is (among other assumptions). We don't literally observe spacetime (and on my view, this is because spacetime is not a substance of container of any sort of whatever in itself)attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:21 am
Well of course they use lasers - the most accurate measurement device at our disposal to detect such an infinitesimal small thing as a fluctuation in SPACETIME - they are however, detecting the curvature of SPACETIME -
The lasers detected the fluctuation of gravitational waves - sure measured the difference in the speed of light within the wave, but this still couples with the effect of what a gravitational wave IS - spacetime curvature.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:15 pmNo. We're detecting changes in the laser set-up. We theorize that those changes have something to do with a spacetime curvature, based on particular ontological views about what spacetime is (among other assumptions). We don't literally observe spacetime (and on my view, this is because spacetime is not a substance of container of any sort of whatever in itself)attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:21 am
Well of course they use lasers - the most accurate measurement device at our disposal to detect such an infinitesimal small thing as a fluctuation in SPACETIME - they are however, detecting the curvature of SPACETIME -
That's a theoretical conclusion. It's not something we actually observe.attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:07 pm The lasers detected the fluctuation of gravitational waves
Not sure why you are insisting that it remains a theoretical conclusion. A conclusion in my book IS something observed.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:26 pmThat's a theoretical conclusion. It's not something we actually observe.attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:07 pm The lasers detected the fluctuation of gravitational waves
Plank length is NOT a literal quantizable 'minimum'. It is defined in a way that others can determine a unit without a particular 'standard', like the original 'meter' being defined by a particular bar's length, for instance. When using literal standards of length, it is hard to use macro-objects (relative to quantum sizes) given they can be affected by temperature differences, material used, etc. It may also be the present smallest agreed to unit (conventional minimum), but it doesn't mean that there is some actual smallest interval greater than zero other than AT an interval of zero size, which would just be a point. But there are still paradoxes about spacial measures; just not related to the Plank length.bahman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:33 am This is believed to be the shortest distance between two points in space so-called Plank length. What is between two points? It cannot be nothing since otherwise two points obviously coincide. Therefore, there is something between the two points. This means that space is a substance. Following the same logic, it follows that time also is a substance.
In other words, what are you receiving sensory data from? (What are you looking at?)attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:39 pm Not sure why you are insisting that it remains a theoretical conclusion. A conclusion in my book IS something observed.
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:34 pmIn other words, what are you receiving sensory data from? (What are you looking at?)attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:39 pm Not sure why you are insisting that it remains a theoretical conclusion. A conclusion in my book IS something observed.