Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:39 am

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:48 am Sorry I am talking about Crusade.

Do you mean the Islamic Crusades, which were the really big, imperialistic and deadly ones, or just the much, much smaller and briefer medieval counter-Crusades of the southern Europeans? Well, whichever you mean, obviously neither of them had anything at all to do with Christ, or with those who follow Him. You can't find anything He ever said that would sanction either.

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:25 am So the Church was supporting the war which is against what Jesus asked.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:35 am

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:25 am So the Church was supporting the war which is against what Jesus asked.

There's actually a lot of debate about the motives of the Crusades...the few that weren't Muslim, that is. They were at least as political as they were religious, apparently. But on the religious side, they were entirely sponsored by medieval Catholicism in Europe.

Now, how close medieval Catholicism was to Christian, I'll let you be the judge. But you've already cited one of the many passages that would rule out any kind of temporal military conquest as being genuinely "Christian."

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:04 am So, Christian didn't kill anyone?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:17 am

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:04 am So, Christian didn't kill anyone?

It's not Christian to kill people. As Jesus said, "A tree is known by its fruit." In the same way, a person is known by what he/she does. Jesus said, "By their fruits you shall know them."

So what do you think?

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:30 am So the Church is not the way to the truth.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:48 am

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:30 am So the Church is not the way to the truth.

Which "church" are you talking about? There are lots of places that call themselves "church." Some are, and some aren't. What makes the difference is whether or not they're doing what Christ said.

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:10 am I mean Catholic Church.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:16 am

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:10 am I mean Catholic Church.

Judge for yourself. That's what Jesus Christ said we were to do.

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:33 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:16 am

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:10 am I mean Catholic Church.

Judge for yourself. That's what Jesus Christ said we were to do.

And what He exactly said?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:42 am

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:33 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:16 am
Judge for yourself. That's what Jesus Christ said we were to do.

And what He exactly said?

Exactly what I said earlier. See Matthew 7:15-23

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:48 am Thanks for the quote.

1. The true hero, the true subject matter, the center of the Iliad is force. The force that men wield, the force
that subdues men, in the face of which human flesh shrinks back. The human soul seems ever conditioned by its ties with force, swept away, blinded by the force it believes it can control, bowed under the
constraint of the force it submits to. Those who have supposed that force, thanks to progress, now belongs to the past, have seen a record of that in Homer’s poem; those wise enough to discern the force at
the center of all human history, today as in the past, find in the Iliad the most beautiful and flawless of
mirrors.
2. Force is that which makes a thing of whoever submits to it. Exercised to the extreme, it makes the
human being a thing quite literally, that is, a dead body. Someone was there and, the next moment, no
one. The Iliad never tires of presenting us this tableau:.....................

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:55 pm
Obviously you don't believe in the forms described by Plato

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:55 pm
But suppose Man doesn't direct the process and create his being in history? Instead it just happens like life in the jungle happens in accordance with universal laws. You are assuming consciouness and freedom of choice where I don't believe it exists.

Conde Lucanor wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:28 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:55 pm
Obviously you don't believe in the forms described by Plato

Surely not.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:55 pm
But suppose Man doesn't direct the process and create his being in history? Instead it just happens like life in the jungle happens in accordance with universal laws. You are assuming consciouness and freedom of choice where I don't believe it exists.

That's a supposition already addressed in the history of social sciences. It's purely ideological. If biological determinism, man would just reproduce his existing conditions of life without change, as the rest of the natural kingdom. A tiger is just the same today as it was 2000 years ago.

3 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:

2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.