Philosophy Now Forum

It may be inevitable that the fanatically secular and the fanatically religious clash. Not respecting a religious taboo is mockery and has no more value nor is worth dying for than fake news or conspiracy theories are worth dying for. The response was medieval and draconian but we only have control over our own actions, we do not have control over the response to our actions. We should begin with what we have control over and act accordingly. There are many things of value that are worth fighting for, and even dying for. The Russian opposition leaders are getting poisoned for a just cause that has value; fighting for political freedom and against corruption. It is not necessary to break, or mock, religious taboos that are inconsequential to us; that have no bearing on our freedoms or how we choose to live. Taboos are consequential only to those for whom they have special meaning and significance. That is their freedom of expression.

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:36 am Veritas Aequitas, there is no state that welcomes terrorists. All states try their best to either exclude terrorists or bring them to justice.

I did not assert, those states welcome known terrorists.

I stated they readily and STUPIDLY [or ignorantly] welcome groups with potential killers because they are so ignorant and for various reasons refuse to acknowledge or bother to dig deep into the truths surrounding Islam and its evil elements; and that within any group there will be 20% of evil prone people.

In contrast note Hungary and Poland who closed their borders to Muslims and they rarely have incidents of attacks by Muslims in the name of Islam and shouting Allahu Akbar.

The facts related to Muslim and Islam are these;

• 1. DNA-RNA wise 20% of ALL humans are born with an active evil tendency.
  2. The Quran - core of Islam is loaded with terrible evil laden elements.
  3. All Muslims are contracted to comply with all the commands in the Quran.

It is already evident from the 1400 history of Islam to the present, wherever there are Muslims, the percentile of 20% evil prone Muslims are influenced to kill and harm non-Muslim as a duty to Allah.
Are you familiar with the Milgram Experiments, where instructions or implicit authority are a catalyst to greater evil acts by followers?

Based on the above facts, if France had welcomed 500,000 Muslims with open arms due to stupidity, logically there will be a pool of 20% or 100,000 evil prone Muslims who are potentials to commit evil and violent acts upon the French people.
The consequences of the above was/is proven evidently and glaringly re the number of people killed and harmed so far in France.

Germany is another of those stupid ones who welcomed 1 million refugees and depositing the evil potential from 20% or 200K of evil prone Muslims within their own citizens. Note the immediate results of mass molestations/rapes that followed and the increased in killings in the name of Islam.

Note your own UK with the prevalent evil acts from SOME [the evil prone] Muslims killing so many innocent non-Muslims, raping under-aged girls, exploiting social welfare benefits, while managing to cow and subdue the authorities not to act on their evil.

Hungary and Poland welcome ZERO Muslims and did not suffer any terrorist attacks [if any, it is a rare exception]. FYI Hungary admitted 1 million legal Christians during the related period & there were no news of terror and violence therefrom.

It is not a pleasant thing to pick on 'Muslims' generally and prevent them from migrating anywhere, but facts 1, 2, 3 and their consequences are real and one must face reality.

The point it is difficult to differentiate 'good' Muslims from 'evil' one because all Muslims are contracted thus obligated to comply with all the commands of Allah, thus including the evil laden ones. Note the cases of so many supposed 'goody-two-shoes' who shocked everyone when they are suddenly charged with terrorist attacks.

This is why I am so adamant the truths with the intrinsic evil within the ideology of Islam must be given serious attention. We cannot pretend there are no such truths as in 1, 2 & 3 above.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:20 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:36 am Veritas Aequitas, there is no state that welcomes terrorists. All states try their best to either exclude terrorists or bring them to justice.

I did not assert, those states welcome known terrorists.

I stated they readily and STUPIDLY [or ignorantly] welcome groups with potential killers because they are so ignorant and for various reasons refuse to acknowledge or bother to dig deep into the truths surrounding Islam and its evil elements; and that within any group there will be 20% of evil prone people.

In contrast note Hungary and Poland who closed their borders to Muslims and they rarely have incidents of attacks by Muslims in the name of Islam and shouting Allahu Akbar.

The facts related to Muslim and Islam are these;

• 1. DNA-RNA wise 20% of ALL humans are born with an active evil tendency.
  2. The Quran - core of Islam is loaded with terrible evil laden elements.
  3. All Muslims are contracted to comply with all the commands in the Quran.

It is already evident from the 1400 history of Islam to the present, wherever there are Muslims, the percentile of 20% evil prone Muslims are influenced to kill and harm non-Muslim as a duty to Allah.
Are you familiar with the Milgram Experiments, where instructions or implicit authority are a catalyst to greater evil acts by followers?

Based on the above facts, if France had welcomed 500,000 Muslims with open arms due to stupidity, logically there will be a pool of 20% or 100,000 evil prone Muslims who are potentials to commit evil and violent acts upon the French people.
The consequences of the above was/is proven evidently and glaringly re the number of people killed and harmed so far in France.

Germany is another of those stupid ones who welcomed 1 million refugees and depositing the evil potential from 20% or 200K of evil prone Muslims within their own citizens. Note the immediate results of mass molestations/rapes that followed and the increased in killings in the name of Islam.

Note your own UK with the prevalent evil acts from SOME [the evil prone] Muslims killing so many innocent non-Muslims, raping under-aged girls, exploiting social welfare benefits, while managing to cow and subdue the authorities not to act on their evil.

Hungary and Poland welcome ZERO Muslims and did not suffer any terrorist attacks [if any, it is a rare exception]. FYI Hungary admitted 1 million legal Christians during the related period & there were no news of terror and violence therefrom.

It is not a pleasant thing to pick on 'Muslims' generally and prevent them from migrating anywhere, but facts 1, 2, 3 and their consequences are real and one must face reality.

The point it is difficult to differentiate 'good' Muslims from 'evil' one because all Muslims are contracted thus obligated to comply with all the commands of Allah, thus including the evil laden ones. Note the cases of so many supposed 'goody-two-shoes' who shocked everyone when they are suddenly charged with terrorist attacks.

This is why I am so adamant the truths with the intrinsic evil within the ideology of Islam must be given serious attention. We cannot pretend there are no such truths as in 1, 2 & 3 above.

Muslims are more than other ethnic groups likely to be both young, and poor. Both of those variables are known to correlate with criminality. The solution is elimination of poverty not stereotyping of Muslims as criminals.

The verse in the Koran refers to hostile Arabian pagans who had persistently targeted Muslims. You need to look at the actual history of Muhammad and the early Muslims.

Moreover Islam for some reason seems to attract some rootless young people from disturbed Xian or non-religious backgrounds. This could be because of the simplicity of the Koran, and Muslims' strong sense of ethnic community that help a young person who has lacked the fathering role in their parenting.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:42 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:20 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:36 am Veritas Aequitas, there is no state that welcomes terrorists. All states try their best to either exclude terrorists or bring them to justice.

I did not assert, those states welcome known terrorists.

I stated they readily and STUPIDLY [or ignorantly] welcome groups with potential killers because they are so ignorant and for various reasons refuse to acknowledge or bother to dig deep into the truths surrounding Islam and its evil elements; and that within any group there will be 20% of evil prone people.

In contrast note Hungary and Poland who closed their borders to Muslims and they rarely have incidents of attacks by Muslims in the name of Islam and shouting Allahu Akbar.

The facts related to Muslim and Islam are these;

• 1. DNA-RNA wise 20% of ALL humans are born with an active evil tendency.
  2. The Quran - core of Islam is loaded with terrible evil laden elements.
  3. All Muslims are contracted to comply with all the commands in the Quran.

It is already evident from the 1400 history of Islam to the present, wherever there are Muslims, the percentile of 20% evil prone Muslims are influenced to kill and harm non-Muslim as a duty to Allah.
Are you familiar with the Milgram Experiments, where instructions or implicit authority are a catalyst to greater evil acts by followers?

Based on the above facts, if France had welcomed 500,000 Muslims with open arms due to stupidity, logically there will be a pool of 20% or 100,000 evil prone Muslims who are potentials to commit evil and violent acts upon the French people.
The consequences of the above was/is proven evidently and glaringly re the number of people killed and harmed so far in France.

Germany is another of those stupid ones who welcomed 1 million refugees and depositing the evil potential from 20% or 200K of evil prone Muslims within their own citizens. Note the immediate results of mass molestations/rapes that followed and the increased in killings in the name of Islam.

Note your own UK with the prevalent evil acts from SOME [the evil prone] Muslims killing so many innocent non-Muslims, raping under-aged girls, exploiting social welfare benefits, while managing to cow and subdue the authorities not to act on their evil.

Hungary and Poland welcome ZERO Muslims and did not suffer any terrorist attacks [if any, it is a rare exception]. FYI Hungary admitted 1 million legal Christians during the related period & there were no news of terror and violence therefrom.

It is not a pleasant thing to pick on 'Muslims' generally and prevent them from migrating anywhere, but facts 1, 2, 3 and their consequences are real and one must face reality.

The point it is difficult to differentiate 'good' Muslims from 'evil' one because all Muslims are contracted thus obligated to comply with all the commands of Allah, thus including the evil laden ones. Note the cases of so many supposed 'goody-two-shoes' who shocked everyone when they are suddenly charged with terrorist attacks.

This is why I am so adamant the truths with the intrinsic evil within the ideology of Islam must be given serious attention. We cannot pretend there are no such truths as in 1, 2 & 3 above.

Muslims are more than other ethnic groups likely to be both young, and poor. Both of those variables are known to correlate with criminality. The solution is elimination of poverty not stereotyping of Muslims as criminals.

NOPE!
I have to insist you are very wrong.
There are lots of poor Christians [Philippines, African countries, etc.] poor Buddhists [Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, and elsewhere] but they don't get commit terrible evil and violent acts like Muslims in poor countries.
Note I have already stated even rich and educated Muslims commit terrible evil and violent acts.

Btw, I don't blame Muslims as the primary cause of Islamic-based evil and violence.

• Do Not Blame Muslims!
  viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24842

The primary root cause of Islamic evil and violence is the ideology of Islam as represented in the Quran.

The verse in the Koran refers to hostile Arabian pagans who had persistently targeted Muslims. You need to look at the actual history of Muhammad and the early Muslims.

Note sure which verse you are referring to. I did not refer to any verse in my last post.

You should understand the History [supposedly] fully.
Btw, the pagans then were doing their things peacefully until it was the arrogant psychotic Muhammad who offended the pagans first by insulting their religions and gods.
The pagans complained to Muhammad's uncle and pleaded with him to stop Muhammad from offending their religion [being sensitive matter then and now].

Moreover Islam for some reason seems to attract some rootless young people from disturbed Xian or non-religious backgrounds. This could be because of the simplicity of the Koran, and Muslims' strong sense of ethnic community that help a young person who has lacked the fathering role in their
parenting.

Nope again.
All religions [especially Christianity which has more converts] attract all sort of people who are triggered by the existential crisis.

But it is only converted Muslims of Islam who went on to commit terrible evil and violence to prove, please and convince Allah they are serious with the conversion thus their readiness to do their duty. As commanded in the Quran, killing and harming non-Muslims is the most convincing acts of devotion to Allah.

This is typical of new cult and gang members who are zealous to prove their conviction as a member to the group by carrying out the commands of the leader and gangs.

I suggest you research on the Quran more thoroughly on what the ideology of Islam represent rather than depending on your subjective hunch and those [Muslims and their apologists] who are ignorant of what real-Islam is.

It is unfortunate the verse about killing polytheists is taken out of its historical context. Avoiding historical context is one reason idolatry happens.

https://medium.com/@paktales/holy-quran ... ee3908c3c6

The Koranic verses about peace and tolerance are also in the Koran.The contentious verse about killing polytheists has to remain in the Koran as to remove it would compromise the status of the peace and tolerance verses.

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:24 am It is unfortunate the verse about killing polytheists is taken out of its historical context. Avoiding historical context is one reason idolatry happens.

https://medium.com/@paktales/holy-quran ... ee3908c3c6

The Koranic verses about peace and tolerance are also in the Koran.The contentious verse about killing polytheists has to remain in the Koran as to remove it would compromise the status of the peace and tolerance verses.

It is a fact you are personally ignorant of the main core doctrines of the Quran and you are twisting and turning all over based on that ignorance.

The reference and site you link is either ignorant of Islam or is trying to deceive others with the following falsehood.

The word Islam has an Arabic root, it is derived from Salamah. Which means peace. So, the name of our religion is actually peace.
https://medium.com/@paktales/holy-quran ... ee3908c3c6

The rest of their points are full of misrepresentation the real and true doctrines of Islam in relation to the Quran - the core of Islam.

There are many Muslims and Islam apologist who make the above claim and they are projecting falsehoods.

If you refer to the proper Muslims sites and academic, the meaning of Islam is "submission".

• Islam (/ˈɪslɑːm/;[A] Arabic: اَلْإِسْلَامُ‎, romanized: al-’Islām, [ɪsˈlaːm] "submission [to God]")[1] is an Abrahamic monotheistic religion teaching that Muhammad is the final and ultimate messenger of God.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

A Muslim is one who has totally submitted to Allah via a contract [covenant] to be an absolute SLAVE to Allah to gain salvation and eternal life at the mercy of Allah.

As such a Muslim is contractually bound and obligated to comply [with one's best ability] with all the commands of Allah within the terms of the contract as stipulated in the Quran.

Whilst there is seemingly some sort of historical contexts in the Quran, they are actually the necessary basis [besides allegories, parables, myths, etc.] to convey inherent immutable eternal principles the Muslims are obligated to comply with in their contract with Allah.
The doctrines and commands of Allah comprised loads of evil and violent commands against non-Muslims to kill, to harm, to suppress them and impose other evil deeds on non-Muslims.

Here is the core principles and command that warrant the killing and harm of non-Muslims [besides the 100++ of other warring and violent verses].

• Quran 5:33 The only reward of those
  [1] who make war upon Allah and His messenger and
  [2] strive after corruption [fasadin] in the land
  will be that
  ..i.. they will be killed or crucified,
  ..ii. or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off,
  ..iii. or will be expelled out of the land.
  Such will be their degradation in the world,
  and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom

The above is the eternal principle within the Quran, ALL Muslims contracted with Allah must comply with as a religious duty.

There are two conditions, i.e. [1] and [2] where non-Muslims can be dealt with via 3 strategies [.i, ii, & iii].

Condition [1] obviously do not imply real war against Allah [invisible] and Muhammad [dead]. Condition [1] refers to insults [verbal or others] thrown at Allah or Muhammad.
Thus anything that is not to the liking or offending to Muslim are taken to be war against Allah and Muhammad.

Condition [2] is very wide ranging and more looser where the term فَسَادًا [fasadin] in the context of the whole Quran is very wide ranging, from the slightest threats to the most serious threats to the religion of Islam.

Note even disbelief in Islam is a fasadin, i.e. the presence of disbelievers [their propensity to proselytize and condemn Islam] is a major threat to Islam.
Now it is so obvious, even the drawings of cartoons is a fasadin, thus Muslims are warranted to carry out the three strategies where [..i] is to kill or crucify [this was what ISIS did] non-believers.

Q5:33 is a very clear cut verses that sanction the killing and harming of non-Muslims upon any of their acts which is fasadin to Islam.
This is in addition to the thousands of anti-non-Muslims verses and those condemnations and calling for the killing of non-Muslims in the Quran that lend support to Q5:33 and other evil and violent commands.

The biggest catalyst to the above in triggering and facilitating SOME Muslims [from a pool of 300 million evil prones] from carrying out 5:33 is, no humans on Earth can insist on their interpretation and judge the acts of any other Muslim; only Allah can judge on judgment day.

Thus when Muslims acted upon 5:33 in killing non-Muslims who are a threat to Islam, i.e. as disbelievers, drawing cartoons, and other threats, those Muslims are merely doing what is right in Allah eyes as their religious duty in compliance with the terms of contract they have signed with Allah.
There is no one else [Muslims or others] on Earth who can judge them.

No Muslim who has entered into a contract with Allah will dare to commit evil and violence based on their own initiative, else they could go to hell.
How they act and what they do must comply exactly to the terms of their contracts as stipulated in the Quran.

Note there are 54% or >3400 of the 6236 verses that are directed negatively at non-muslims [the kuffar, the kafir, infidels] thus there is a very strong central theme of hatred for non-Muslims.

There are peaceful verses directed at non-Muslims in the Quran but there are less than 10 out of the 6236 verses. In all these cases, they are abrogated and overridden by the >3400++ evil and violent verses against the non-Muslims.

There are many verses [100++] with peaceful elements but they are only applicable specifically to Muslims and not non-Muslims.

I suggest you research more deeply into the Quran and Islam if you want to be an Islamist-apologist, but if you really understand what the Quran represent, you will not want to be an Islamist apologist.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:

A Muslim is one who has totally submitted to Allah via a contract [covenant] to be an absolute SLAVE to Allah to gain salvation and eternal life at the mercy of Allah.

Let us bear in mind that words sometimes connote implicit evaluations such as your use of 'slave'. God is deterministic.

The main point is there are two jihads, the greater and the lesser. The lesser jihad applied more to the times of Muhammad. The greater jijad applies to all Muslims everywhere as it is about improving the personal soul, if I may so describe it. Scholars have described the greater jihad.