Philosophy Now Forum

Belinda wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 9:27 am

Atla wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 7:48 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 7:24 pm
You can't without compromising your authenticity.

What if I wipe my memories until they are empty echoes, nothing more?

That too would be inauthentic.

Yeah sad but true, that's why I only try to be 90% authentic anymore.

Atla wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 10:01 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 9:27 am

Atla wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 7:48 pm
What if I wipe my memories until they are empty echoes, nothing more?

That too would be inauthentic.

Yeah sad but true, that's why I only try to be 90% authentic anymore.

We all need some comedy to get through the day

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 3:12 am I am surprised you are asking for such empirical evidences which is public knowledge.

No, you're not.

You just don't want to try to provide it's quite obvious you can't provide. There are no studies at all that show causality between DNA and existential crises, let alone with belief in "religions."

If I'm wrong, then this "public knowledge" of yours should make it dead easy to prove I am...just give me the studies.

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 3:25 am You cannot believe in free will if you are Christian because you believe in an omniscient God

Actually, the vast majority of such Theists are believers in free will. Determinism is a minority position.

Meanwhile, there is no contradiction in thinking "God can create free-will-having creatures." Heck, human beings themselves do it, every time they have a child. That's no problem at all for the Supreme Being. Why would we think He was less capable than we are?

As that is one who will know absolutely everything about everyone before they are even born

Well, theologians on both sides are agreed on this distinction: that "foreknowledge" is not causality, and does not entail Determinism. And that's very easy to show. When was the last time you "knew" something into happening?

Or think of it this way: if I know (completely accurately) right now that you are going to respond to this message, is it your assumption that I'm going to "make" you respond? Of course not. To know is not to make. Knowing is a passive state, and making is an active one. And your will is your own.

Determinism requires not merely that God "knows" what you will free-will-do, but that He has to cause the doing actually to happen, and actively prevent anything else from happening. In other words, it supposes God has to micromanage the universe nervously. And yet we often allow our own children freedom; why would we think God incapable of what any ordinary human being can achieve merely by being passive in a situation?

So it's not only the case that I "cannot believe in free will." I do, in fact -- for after all, I have free will to do so.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 2:49 am Note this;

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 6:11 am It is SO EVIDENT, the majority of humans 90% have resorted to the irrational belief "God exists as real" or cling to other religious beliefs to soothe the subliminal existential crisis.

It's very evident that you have strong feelings that they do. But that is an assertion of your opinion. It is also evident that you are unable to construct a robust and persuasive argument in support of your opinion. How strongly you feel that you are right is not important to me or to anyone else.

Where did you get the idea my point is based on strong feelings and not based [best estimate] on fact?

It is SO EVIDENT 90% [my original guess] of the world population are religious.

As listed in this;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... ts_in_2020
1.1 billion Secular[a]/Nonreligious [.b]/Agnostic/Atheist which is 14% of the total of 7.8 billion.
Therefore the religious population is 86%!

My rough guess of 90% is not way off.

Therefore you are wrong on your claim my point is based on 'strong feelings' as an assertion of an opinion.
This is why I insist you are ignorant and stupid.

Note how I had to put back in there the quote of your words to which I was responding because you didn't read them properly yourself.
You responded to me as if the thing I was arguing about was a simple empirical claim about 90% of people being religious.
But I was objecting to the claim that 90% are religious for the sake of this supposed "subliminal existential crisis".
You cannot support that claim with the arguments you are making here.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 2:49 am I am confident I have a solid counter against all the counters [based on ignorance and stupidity] that you can throw at me.
All you complain is my arguments are not structured - so what? They can be improved if I have the time.

What is it about logical structure that you are unable to understand?
All you need to do is have the right sort of premises to support a conclusion that must be true if those premises are true.
You don't have that, you are making an argument where the premises can be true and the conclusion can still be wrong.
It doesn't help that your premises are indeed a shitstorm of unintelligible nonsense, but fixing that wouldn't help you with the logic problem you have.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 1:19 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 3:12 am I am surprised you are asking for such empirical evidences which is public knowledge.

No, you're not.

You just don't want to try to provide it's quite obvious you can't provide. There are no studies at all that show causality between DNA and existential crises, let alone with belief in "religions."

If I'm wrong, then this "public knowledge" of yours should make it dead easy to prove I am...just give me the studies.

I did not get your intended point earlier.
Yes, there are no obvious and easily available studies that show the causality between DNA and the existential crisis. I have exhausted my searching in this area.

What I have provided is my original argument as in the OP and revised in the later post.

My point is my Premise 1 is true, i.e there is a link between the human DNA and the inherent propensity of humans in striving to survive against the worst odds.
This link is so evident and is public knowledge.

Each of the premise I provided follows [albeit not explained in detail] lead to the conclusion of the origin of the belief in a God which is grounded in the DNA/RNA codes.
Show me which of my premise is false?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 6:40 am Yes, there are no obvious and easily available studies that show the causality between DNA and the existential crisis. I have exhausted my searching in this area.

Well, "obvious" and "easily available"is not required, of course. I'll take any study that exists.

Yet I think what you've found out is that you actually have no scientific evidence that anything like a DNA sequence that is causally tied to the "existential crisis" you claim explains "religion." And that should convince you it's probably just an imagining on your part. Maybe you need another explanation, one that does not involve DNA theories for which there's no evidence.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 1:06 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 6:40 am Yes, there are no obvious and easily available studies that show the causality between DNA and the existential crisis. I have exhausted my searching in this area.

Well, "obvious" and "easily available"is not required, of course. I'll take any study that exists.

Yet I think what you've found out is that you actually have no scientific evidence that anything like a DNA sequence that is causally tied to the "existential crisis" you claim explains "religion." And that should convince you it's probably just an imagining on your part. Maybe you need another explanation, one that does not involve DNA theories for which there's no evidence.

You have ignored my overall argument in here.

viewtopic.php?p=456346#p456346

Here is my argument again [with editing and additional points]

The following are evident facts;

• A. All humans are "programmed" with self-awareness.
  
  B. Mortality [death] is a "certainty" [99.999999..999%].
  
  C. Self-awareness [A] make one aware of mortality [death] [.B].

Here is the reorganized argument;

• 1. DNA/RNA wise, all humans [generic] are "programmed" [no God involved] to survive against all odds - at least till the inevitable or in cases of hopeless.
  
  2. To ensure survival, all humans need to avoid death, else terrible fears arise.
  
  3 To resolve the terrible fears, humans need to find effective solutions to avoid death.
  
  4. But there are no effective solutions to avoid death as in the fact of Mortality [-B] when humans are self-aware [C] of mortality [-B]. Thus terrible subliminal fears arise permanently [2].
  
  5. The subliminal fears generate terrible pains and mental sufferings indirectly as a subliminal existential crisis pulsating deep subliminally from within the primal brain.
  
  6. Without direct solutions to deal with the subliminal existential crisis and its indirect mental sufferings, humans turned to various irrational beliefs and practice to soothe the indirectly associated pains and sufferings. This is very evident, i.e. 'believe and viola! the existential sufferings [e.g. Angst] is relieved immediately'. Thus the saying "there are no atheists in fox holes."
  
  7. It is SO EVIDENT, the majority of humans, i.e. 86% have resorted to the irrational belief "God exists as real" or cling to other religious beliefs to soothe the subliminal existential crisis.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... opulations
  
  8. As evident in the holy and doctrinal texts of all the major theistic religions [Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Vedanta-Hinduism ] of irrational beliefs promised salvation with eternal life in the thereafter, where other non-theistic religions [Buddhism, Jainism, etc.] deal directly with, manage, and modulate the existential crisis.
  
  9. Therefore the irrational belief in God [theism] is linked to the existential crisis emerging from points 7 back to 1 [DNA/RNA].

If you are knowledgeable of the doctrines of these theistic and not-theistic religions, you will note they are connected to the points I raised, especially dealing with death and the thereafter.

Show me which theistic or non-theistic religions do not deal with "mortality" as a critical factor at all?

Note:
I am not claiming there is a direct link from DNA/RNA to a belief in God.
The DNA/RNA factor caused the existential dilemma/crisis to emerge.
This existential crisis drive the early humans to animism, then only to theism [majority at present], other social activities [good and evil], non-theism and other activities.

My point is:
There is no pre-existing independent God out there that is real for believers to believe in.
The belief in God is a psychological activity to soothe the inherent existential crisis which is reducible to codes in the human DNA/RNA.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 5:18 am 9. Therefore the irrational belief in God [theism] is linked to the existential crisis emerging from points 7 back to 1 [DNA/RNA].[/list]

So, not caused, not the result of .... just linked?

All that nonsense just to downgrade from conclusion to insinuation.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 9:18 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 5:18 am 9. Therefore the irrational belief in God [theism] is linked to the existential crisis emerging from points 7 back to 1 [DNA/RNA].[/list]

So, not caused, not the result of .... just linked?

All that nonsense just to downgrade from conclusion to insinuation.

You are SO ignorant and stupid.
That is because your "reptillian" and barbarian brain is dominating your consciousness.

If one were to google, the term "link" is related to "cause" ..

Two examples from the millions..

Can dandruff lead to hair loss? The link, causes, and treatmentswww.medicalnewstoday.com › articles
Nov 11, 2019 - Is there a link? What causes both? Other causes; Prevention tips; Summary. Dandruff itself does not cause hair loss, but ...

What causes depression? - Harvard Healthwww.health.harvard.edu › mind-and-mood › what-caus...
Jun 24, 2019 - Researchers are exploring possible links between sluggish production of new neurons in the hippocampus and low moods. An interesting fact ...

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 5:18 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 1:06 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 6:40 am Yes, there are no obvious and easily available studies that show the causality between DNA and the existential crisis. I have exhausted my searching in this area.

Well, "obvious" and "easily available"is not required, of course. I'll take any study that exists.

Yet I think what you've found out is that you actually have no scientific evidence that anything like a DNA sequence that is causally tied to the "existential crisis" you claim explains "religion." And that should convince you it's probably just an imagining on your part. Maybe you need another explanation, one that does not involve DNA theories for which there's no evidence.

You have ignored my overall argument in here.

For a very good reason. It's the recycling of a totally implausible, debunked argument. There's no value in flogging the proverbial "dead horse." That "horse," the belief that DNA explains existential crisis, is just plain dead, as you can see above.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 10:43 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 9:18 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 5:18 am 9. Therefore the irrational belief in God [theism] is linked to the existential crisis emerging from points 7 back to 1 [DNA/RNA].[/list]

So, not caused, not the result of .... just linked?

All that nonsense just to downgrade from conclusion to insinuation.

You are SO ignorant and stupid.
That is because your "reptillian" and barbarian brain is dominating your consciousness.

If one were to google, the term "link" is related to "cause" ..

Two examples from the millions..

Can dandruff lead to hair loss? The link, causes, and treatmentswww.medicalnewstoday.com › articles
Nov 11, 2019 - Is there a link? What causes both? Other causes; Prevention tips; Summary. Dandruff itself does not cause hair loss, but ...

What causes depression? - Harvard Healthwww.health.harvard.edu › mind-and-mood › what-caus...
Jun 24, 2019 - Researchers are exploring possible links between sluggish production of new neurons in the hippocampus and low moods. An interesting fact ...

Correlation is a link but not a cause. You are linked to your uncle but caused by your dad.
So did you write link because you cannot demonstrate causation (which would be unusually perspicacious on your part) in which case your whole argument is worhtless junk with no strict conclusion...
Or did you write link just because you are clumsy and you actually meant "cased by", in which case your argument is worthless junk because the premises don't support that conclusion.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 5:22 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 5:18 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 1:06 pm
Well, "obvious" and "easily available"is not required, of course. I'll take any study that exists.

Yet I think what you've found out is that you actually have no scientific evidence that anything like a DNA sequence that is causally tied to the "existential crisis" you claim explains "religion." And that should convince you it's probably just an imagining on your part. Maybe you need another explanation, one that does not involve DNA theories for which there's no evidence.

You have ignored my overall argument in here.

For a very good reason. It's the recycling of a totally implausible, debunked argument. There's no value in flogging the proverbial "dead horse." That "horse," the belief that DNA explains existential crisis, is just plain dead, as you can see above.

Which above?

My argument justify the DNA/RNA contribute to theism via the stated premises.
Since all the premises are true, they follow to the conclusion.
Show me which of the premise is false?

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 5:32 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 10:43 am

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 9:18 am
So, not caused, not the result of .... just linked?

All that nonsense just to downgrade from conclusion to insinuation.

You are SO ignorant and stupid.
That is because your "reptillian" and barbarian brain is dominating your consciousness.

If one were to google, the term "link" is related to "cause" ..

Two examples from the millions..

Can dandruff lead to hair loss? The link, causes, and treatmentswww.medicalnewstoday.com › articles
Nov 11, 2019 - Is there a link? What causes both? Other causes; Prevention tips; Summary. Dandruff itself does not cause hair loss, but ...

What causes depression? - Harvard Healthwww.health.harvard.edu › mind-and-mood › what-caus...
Jun 24, 2019 - Researchers are exploring possible links between sluggish production of new neurons in the hippocampus and low moods. An interesting fact ...

Correlation is a link but not a cause. You are linked to your uncle but caused by your dad.
So did you write link because you cannot demonstrate causation (which would be unusually perspicacious on your part) in which case your whole argument is worhtless junk with no strict conclusion...
Or did you write link just because you are clumsy and you actually meant "cased by", in which case your argument is worthless junk because the premises don't support that conclusion.

Where I wrote 'link' and the intention is 'cause', it is a matter of semantics.
Note Principle of Charity.
Show me which premise is false?

You are so ignorant and stupid, no matter how you will never agree to those truth.
My argument and model can be tested.
Where we can manage and modulate the subliminal fears 'caused' by the DNA/RNA, the subject will let go of theism, as in Buddhist practices [mindfulness] and others who had converted out of theism.

I will not be responding to your posts, they are too barbaric and without substance.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 4:51 am Show me which of the premise is false?

Your premise that there was evidence for a DNA "existential crisis" connection was false. You admitted as much yourself. But even if you take that back, you're still wrong.

Dead.

Horse.

Quit flogging.